Define literacy for us and what is your experience here with encountering literacy?

bossho · Post by **bossho** » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:43 pm

This has always bothered me, how UNESCO defines literacy and why. The numbers seem way, way off to me just considering my limited experience here in Cambodia I don't see anything resembling 70 or 80 percent literacy rates here. I am asking for any input on the readership's informal surveying of the literacy rate here please. Also, any insiders that know the UNESCO system or that have more formal data they can share please do.

My informal field experience is very far from these numbers, what are your constructive thoughts on this?

Here are some sources that beg these questions:

Off google search for "literacy rates wiki"

What is meant by literacy rate?

Definition: The percentage of population aged 15 years and over who can both read and write with understanding a short simple statement on his/her everyday life. Generally, 'literacy' also encompasses 'numeracy', the ability to make simple arithmetic calculations. (UNESCO WIKI LITERACY)

I find this vague and almost worthless.

Better: A further scroll down....
http://uis.unesco.org/en/glossary-term/literacy-rate

Literacy rate
Definition
The literacy rate is defined by the percentage of the population of a given age group that can read and write. The adult literacy rate corresponds to ages 15 and above, the youth literacy rate to ages 15 to 24, and the elderly to ages 65 and above. It is typically measured according to the ability to comprehend a short simple statement on everyday life. Generally, literacy also encompasses numeracy, and measurement may incorporate a simple assessment of arithmetic ability. The literacy rate and number of literates should be distinguished from functional literacy, a more comprehensive measure of literacy assessed on a continuum in which multiple proficiency levels can be determined. (UNESCO WIKI)

And then this partial screen copy from here:
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the ... world.html

Democratic Republic of the Congo 75.0 %
Sudan 74.0 %
Cambodia 74.0%
Uganda 73.0 %
Lao People's Democratic Republic 73.0 %
Algeria 73.0 %
Kenya 72.0 %

(World Atlas)

ofparadise · Post by **ofparadise** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:20 am

According to Unesco...

Current literacy data are generally collected through population censuses or household surveys in which the respondent or head of the household declares whether they can read and write with understanding a short, simple statement about one's everyday life in any written language. Some surveys require respondents to take a quick test in which they are asked to read a simple passage or write a sentence, yet clearly literacy is a far more complex issue that requires more information.

(http://uis.unesco.org/en/topic/literacy)

Bad data, i'd say.

Large scale, verifiable, data collection in Cambodia, has been hard to come by because of the complexities of the current organisation structure. By the time the data filters down, it's been through many hands.

However, the current Covid situation is a gold mine for Statistics agencies to start collecting data. Maybe we'll see cleaner datasets coming soon.

Kammekor · Post by **Kammekor** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:38 am

ofparadise wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:20 am According to Unesco...

Current literacy data are generally collected through population censuses or household surveys in which the respondent or head of the household declares whether they can read and write with understanding a short, simple statement about one's everyday life in any written language. Some surveys require respondents to take a quick test in which they are asked to read a simple passage or write a sentence, yet clearly literacy is a far more complex issue that requires more information.
(http://uis.unesco.org/en/topic/literacy)

Bad data, i'd say.

Large scale, verifiable, data collection in Cambodia, has been hard to come by because of the complexities of the current organisation structure. By the time the data filters down, it's been through many hands.

However, the current Covid situation is a gold mine for Statistics agencies to start collecting data. Maybe we'll see cleaner datasets coming soon.

Add to that the wish of the Cambodian government to get the literacy numbers up to justify the billions and billions and billions of aid given to the government to improve education.
I worked for an NGO for two years and quit after I had to collaborate in writing impact studies. The studies were way out of line, simply insane to be honest, and presented fantastic stories about goals achieved while in reality just a little bit of progress was hard to achieve already.
I remember one day we had to do a survey about the drop out rate in Ratanakiri in primary schools. The numbers where whopping, incredibly high especially amongst girls. They were so high Foster (Parents Plan) refused to start a program in the province, they would have to disappoint too many foster parents if they would start a program. Instead they started a program in another province with lowest drop out numbers Siem Reap if I recall well). Made my cynical about aid programs for life.

Bitte_Kein_Lexus · Post by **Bitte_Kein_Lexus** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:04 pm

Literacy is probably closer to 90% if not slightly higher, but as mentioned by someone else, it's a common UN ploy for $$$/projects and so on.

Alex · Post by **Alex** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:27 pm

Yeah it's a sensitive subject. By my own (rather high) standards, many Thais are practically illiterate, while by their official standards, their literacy rate is high.

atst · Post by **atst** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:31 pm

Try this on any khmers, would they rather have $140 per week for a year or $140*4 = $560 per month for a year.
Or just ask how many weeks in a year

jah steu · Post by **jah steu** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:43 pm

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote:Literacy is probably closer to 90% if not slightly higher, but as mentioned by someone else, it's a common UN ploy for $$$/projects and so on.

That’s not my experience here. We employ dozens of female bar staff. Rural girls from poor families. So not representative of urban locals.
About 25% are reasonably literate. About 35% have very basic literacy. That leaves 40% who are illiterate. Many say their parents are also illiterate.
Interestingly their numeracy is better. Possibly from constantly calculating their salaries, commissions, rents, loans, bets etc.
Also many of them learn to read and write English to a much higher level than their Khmer literacy. An important skill for communicating with foreign men to hopefully get some money coming in!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Post by **Freightdog** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:05 pm

jah steu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:43 pm That’s not my experience here. We employ dozens of female bar staff. Rural girls from poor families. So not representative of urban locals.
About 25% are reasonably literate. About 35% have very basic literacy. That leaves 40% who are illiterate. Many say their parents are also illiterate.
Interestingly their numeracy is better.

That seems much more representative.

I noticed out in the boonies that in a large family group, say about 6-10 adults, plus a gaggle of kids, one or two of the adults did most of the reading, especially if it was something important. (Khmer script, letters from Sangkat, etc).
A few of the kids in the age range 8-12yrs might know their alphabet, but reading Khmer in sentences is a big task. There was only 1 young teen who could read properly. She was something of an exception- her manners, disposition, everything was markedly different from her cousins. Sadly, at 14 she was already off to the garment mill.

In the older age group (my age and up). It seems that improves a lot, and among the elderly aunts/grandparents, even out there, it was quite common to be able to read a news paper.

Numeracy, as you say is quite good. Basic everyday arithmetic. It’s actually quite difficult to teach the kids some basic math skills when their mother does it in her head. But there’s a good chance that her working in the markets, and managing house that way helped develop a skill that she is ill equipped to teach.

orussey98 · Post by **orussey98** » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:54 pm

Alex wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:27 pm Yeah it's a sensitive subject. By my own (rather high) standards, many Thais are practically illiterate, while by their official standards, their literacy rate is high.

In your (rather high) standards do you include metric system?

bossho · Post by **bossho** » Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:02 am

As pertains to female bar staff: There are groups I've encountered whereby no one seems to be able to read at all. If you take women working in bars in any capacity I bet the number is more like 80% cannot and 20% can and I'm giving points here. Of course I am adding girls that are not bar staff that work in bars and their literacy rates are lower than bar staff I'd imagine. I used to be fascinated by a friend who could not read at age 40 and watch her "order off the menu", when what she was really doing was charming the waitperson and hoping for pictures on the menu. Now, If I am with her I just order for her.
The English learning as opposed to Khmer script thing I've also noted and yes, the numeracy (love that word)skills are way up there for everyone I've encountered except lately I've noticed many cashiers doing second and third time change counts when they are using a cash register, with no machine involved the counting is smoothly done once in most cases.
It seems to me that many of the boys and young men can read or will attempt to. Its as simple as the boys were sent to school in the poorer families and the girls were not.