nerdlinger wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:08 am

samrong01 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:23 am We can see from our own observations that the places that have the most draconian restrictions are often hardest hit - e.g. California, while many places with few restrictions are not so bad - e.g. Cambodia, Florida. We know that people in confined spaces are most likely to spread the disease so locking up people for months at a time as in the UK is bound to increase not decrease the spread of the disease.
...
What is new this time is the mass hysteria over a disease that is not particularly serious.

I don't think I've ever seen a more blatant case of someone getting cause and effect so completely backwards.

Yet you have no evidence to refute the argument.

There is an interesting plan published by the UK government back in 2011 at a time when people were rational. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 131040.pdf

It is an interesting plan because it it is very broadly based covering all aspects of any influenza-type pandemic. It envisages a death rate of between 2.5-3% which is much higher than the current pandemic and total deaths in the UK of around 200,000 plus - about double the current deaths. It is very much based on previous experience in 1968, 1957, and 2009 (a pandemic which I for one have forgotten). It categorises pandemics as Low, Medium, or High in terms of their impact on society. Based on their categorisations the current pandemic is medium. It goes into some detail on the social and economic effects and talks about the morale of the population - all factors currently being ignored. Its also interesting that it states that there is no evidence of any benefit of the general public wearing masks, no evidence that congregating in crowds (presumably they mean outdoors) has any effect, and that closing borders only delays the peaking of a pandemic by 2-4 weeks. It does not even mention lockdowns or incarcerating people for 14 days at their own expense - no doubt thinking that this is so far beyond lawful that they are inconceivable. It simply recommends that people follow normal basic hygiene practices. The Singapore government also recommended this in 2020 back before they panicked and lost their minds.
Another point of interest is that it envisaged a pandemic which not only killed old people but was also dangerous in children - as in previous pandemics. The interesting and unusual aspect of the current pandemic is that it does not affect children. Nobody knows why and so far it seems that no study has been done to try and explain it.

This plan is specifically related to the UK but certainly has relevance anywhere. It was discarded immediately when the hysteria kicked in. Now any study in every country affected by the hysteria that contradicts government policy is discredited or ignored.

The virus is already in decline and undoubtedly in the course of 2021 will fade away as with previous pandemics. It will continue to mutate and will never completely disappear. People will continue to die in tens of thousands just like influenza for the next many decades. What will happen to the hysteria is unpredictable since it has never happened before.

How I wish that so much attention could be paid to real public health problems: malaria, diabetes, heart disease, dengue fever etc.

samrong01 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:46 am

nerdlinger wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:08 am

samrong01 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:23 am We can see from our own observations that the places that have the most draconian restrictions are often hardest hit - e.g. California, while many places with few restrictions are not so bad - e.g. Cambodia, Florida. We know that people in confined spaces are most likely to spread the disease so locking up people for months at a time as in the UK is bound to increase not decrease the spread of the disease.
...
What is new this time is the mass hysteria over a disease that is not particularly serious.

I don't think I've ever seen a more blatant case of someone getting cause and effect so completely backwards.

Yet you have no evidence to refute the argument.

You're writing these huge walls of text citing other long studies that don't particularly bear out your claims, and then demand evidence behind me essentially saying "countries whose healthcare systems aren't being overwhelmed, don't need to lock down". It's a classic gish gallop / Brandolini's law combo.

Ebola kills quickly. There are outward signs that everyone can see, and then they die in a few days. This is far worse. No outward signs for everyone to see. And they don’t suddenly drop dead.

Instead, many are infected with few symptoms and continue to spread. Those that become seriously symptomatic continue to consume far more intensive resources - ICU care, ventilators, dialysis machines, etc., for a very long time. Most eventually recover, but will have sequela. It’s a recipe for disaster in any western medical system.

In Cambodia, it is your karma, whether one lives or dies. In the western world, every life is equally precious, and every death a tragedy. Maximum resources are always brought to bear.

If it had started in a western country first? Probably more would have been known about it faster, better management, possibly better containment, and possibly vaccines rollout even more quickly than now. Western countries tend to share information, not clamp down for fear of losing face.

For Cambodia, it’s hysteria. In the face of a younger population, few medical resources, and exposure to all sorts of diseases on a daily basis. For western healthcare, a bullet, possible death sentence.

Just my thoughts.
Please be safe out there!

Average age of death from this new Wuhan variant anyone?

Ravensnest wrote: You simply refuse to accept my answer to your 3 questions . I'll repeat it one last time. Doctors never tested them for covid. That statement answers your first 3 questions whether you like it or not.

Now, I've played nice. I'll be happy to answer more of yours questions after you answer my 3. 1. How many ICUs have you visited and which?
2. How many ventilators are actually in Cambodia?
3. Why are Doctors not testing for covid as standard practice for patients exhibiting the symptoms? That should be the first thing they check to keep the population safe, but they are not doing it sir.

Just in case you are not aware, there are various levels of severity of covid, just like any other type of health compromise. Just because you have it doesn't mean you need a ventilator. I'm beginning to think you don't know much about this disease. I am at Soviet Khmer friendship Hospital 5 days a week, just to throw out there.

I'd love to know the statistics of Cambodia's hospitals and clinics of how many patients that have been diagnosed with pneumonia in the last twelve months. I'm willing to put my money on record setting case numbers in the last 12 months.

So if none of the students were tested for covid we don’t know that any actually had covid. You’re speculating that they might have had it based on the symptoms. No facts.
I don’t know how many ventilators are available in Cambodia. Is that at all relevant? You seem to be based at one of the major hospitals, you must have a fair idea.
No I haven’t visited ICU’s. I imagine I would be rightly discouraged from doing so. But are they reporting a heavy case load of covid patients?
Again, you’re at a hospital so might be able to get information on pneumonia numbers.
Of course I’m aware that symptoms vary in severity with covid. There will be asymptomatic cases, mild cases and definitely CASES REQUIRING HOSPITALISATION AND ICU CARE.
Are you aware of ANY hospitals reporting cases?
You may say they are deliberately not reporting such cases but social media being as pervasive as it is, some information would definitely leak out. I’m not aware of any such leaks.
In your many hours wandering around your hospital are you aware of any covid cases presenting there except for the cases sent there after testing positive. Are there any individual patients turning up with symptoms and testing positive?
If you’re there in a medical capacity have you asked why doctors are not testing patients for covid? You seem upset about it, what do they say when you ask?


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