Trumps Legacy

Big Daikon · Post by **Big Daikon** » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:26 pm

tightenupvolume1 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:23 pm This is one UK take on what happened and what is happening in the USA. Its easy to call trump supporters racist nazis and Biden supporters commie globalists, as usual the truth is a bit more complicated IMO

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/01/2 ... new-world/

In 2016, Trump and Sanders overlapped about 60%. Right-wing vs. left-wing populism and such.

Put it this way, many Liberal friends stopped talking to me in 2016. On the other hand, I have had some great chats with my BernieBro friends.

PS-I don't see Biden as a commie. He is pure System.

tightenupvolume1 · Post by **tightenupvolume1** » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:47 pm

I don't see Biden as a commie either nor do i see Trump as a nazi, this seems to be what many of the respective supporters of both sides say. Same in the UK, if you voted for brexit you are a racist and wall builder, if you voted to stay you want open borders and globalism, no middle ground

Clemen · Post by **Clemen** » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:41 am

This is disingenuous at best, Trump tried, and failed, to build a useless wall. When his supporters embezzled money from it, he pardoned them. When the “troops come first” he diverted billions to this bullshit.
This whole “let America heal” while holding no one responsible for sacking the Capitol, is treason.
The term “false equivalency”
Pales in comparison.
After the Capitol was sacked, 143 republicans still voted to invalidate the democratic process, based on nothing. More than 60 cases were in the courts, none prevailed, even in republican partisan courts.
Try them all for treason or insurrection, then we can move on from this.
I am for unity, if you’re against this, and are willing to betray your oath you are not fit to serve.

SternAAlbifrons · Post by **SternAAlbifrons** » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:33 am

I agree, Clem - for the leaders.
But if a significant part of the population are so ready to believe The Steal - you should be recognising you have a major systemic issue to deal with - and start seriously listening.
Not start putting 40% of the population and their elected representatives on trial for treason.

American democracy (and the West generally) needs to start getting it's own act together - start addressing some of its inequities and systemic failures.
That is how you beat Trumpism - demonstrate to the people that your way actually is better for them, is listening to them, does give their concerns validity - not by banning and locking up him and his message.

Alex · Post by **Alex** » Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:10 pm

SternAAlbifrons wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:33 am But if a significant part of the population are so ready to believe The Steal - you should be recognising you have a major systemic issue to deal with - and start seriously listening.

Sounds good, in principle. But as they believe in something that has no basis in facts, what's the result you're hoping for when you engage in a serious conversation with them?

Take some of the recent QAnon belief system posts on here by @monomial as an example. I did read what he had to say. I did think about it. I believed none of it - and none of it happened come Inauguration Day. In a nutshell, it was complete and utter nonsense.

I don't mind people having different views and unlike others, I still have friends who voted for Trump (some of them, TWICE!). I don't have a problem with anyone who voted for Trump just because they voted for Trump. But if someone's belief system is completely detached from reality (which is true for members of the extreme right AND the extreme left!), then there's simply no basis for having an intelligent conversation.

Not sure what the solution is, but "seriously listening" won't cut it!

Big Daikon · Post by **Big Daikon** » Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:49 pm

Haidt (2012) described the political divide as essentially religious in nature. Liberals and Conservatives have different moral foundations and are mostly talking past each other. The common ground is disappearing.

Not surprising both groups hold positions that often seem ridiculous to others.

John Bingham · Post by **John Bingham** » Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:56 pm

Trump Could Pay $156,000 For Every Jan. 6 Rioter’s Defense, But So Far Has Spent Zero
The former president is sitting on at least $105 million in cash collected by spreading the same lies about the election that incited the assault on the Capitol.

WASHINGTON — Former President Donald Trump could pay $156,000 in legal expenses for every person arrested thus far in the Jan. 6 assault on the Capitol using the $105 million he has collected by spreading the same lies he used to incite the attack, but so far has not helped a single one of the nearly 700 rioters.

“Many people who went there that day are disappointed by his lack of support,” said one defense lawyer on the condition of anonymity so as not to hurt his Jan. 6 client’s case. “If President Trump was ever going to step up and step in, the time to do it is right now.”

Albert Watkins, the lawyer for the self-described “QAnon Shaman” who last week was sentenced to three and half years in federal prison for his role in the attack, was far more blunt speaking to reporters afterward about what Trump should do.

“I’d tell him, ’You know what? You’ve got a few fucking things to do. Including clearing this fucking mess up and taking care of a lot of the jackasses that you fucked up because of January 6,’” he said.

In all, 140 police officers were injured by Trump’s mob, with five officers dying over a period of weeks in addition to four Trump supporters who died that day.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-le ... 1e5503421f

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