whatwat wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:10 pm

AzalKH wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:00 pm Renewables are becoming cheaper than fossil fuels now, especially when you factor in how subsidised the fossil fuel industry is in the west... Also, considering that even in your good old US of A 90-95% of new energy supply is either solar or wind over recent years, not a figure which could be achieved without state level investment, I'd hazard a guess that you are way out of touch on the subject.

Aside from solar panels there are concentrated solar power plants which could be effective here too. Not aware of any plans for that though.

Not to mention floating solar panels which can sit on dam reservoirs, not only providing energy, but also not using land, sitting directly on a grid input, reduce evaporation from the reservoir, and can be rapidly installed as demand increases as they are modular. I have heard they are planning to do this at a couple of dams.

Utter rubbish.

Utter rubbish (^^^ whatwat)

The renewable energy sector added 176 GW of power generating capacity globally in 2019, marginally lower than the (revised) 179 GW added in 2018. However, new renewable power accounted for 72 percent of all power expansion last year of which solar and wind made up 90 percent of new additions, according to new data released by the International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA).
https://bioenergyinternational.com/heat ... 2019-irena


I realise these figure will blow the minds of the Luddites amongst our members -
but get used to it!
You will continue to be astonished over and over again - by what is already happening - for a long time to come.
(or you could wake up)

lol
Ute, i have watched the film.
it is just that i have not formed my view from watching it only.
Anyone who did only that would have to have rocks in their head.

Read what's going on everywhere, read some of the more 'accessible' science, read the biz pages
read the numbers. (^^ 72% ffs)

Sure, i put more value on nature than most people, i am fully aware that i am out of whack with many of our members and readers here. But i am not an ideologue.
Science is my guide for understanding the world. I am a natural sceptic, i need to be convinced by proven facts or logical argument - especially when it come to matters which vitally affect the things i love most.
I am not going to let myself be led up the garden path by fairies, you can be sure of that.
All, all, of the data on this issue that i have downloaded into my brain leads me to agree with the overwhelming concusses of Science.
But that's just me, i know others will differ. Good!

PS - as an environmentalist you get to know the meaning of nit picking.
waddabout this, waddabout that - see told ya it was no good
Moores film is a classic for that.

FFS - He attacks BigFossil, hates em.
Now attacking renewables, not perfect enough
Nuclear, for sure he would trash that too
What does the flocker want? To be a rich famous contrarian hero, that's all.

Username Taken wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:49 am So, to answer PucketRichard's question "did ya watch yet", clearly the answer is No.

I watched it last night and was surprised at how un-environmentally friendly solar and wind power really are. I should also have been surprised that big business have twisted things around and word-smithed things to sound like they're actually helping the environment and not their bank accounts.

To yourself and @SternAAlbifrons, I would say, forget any bias and preconceived opinions you have about Michael Moore, he only financed the documentary. The whole thing was written, produced and directed by Jeff Gibbs, a self-confessed tree-hugger from the sixties.

Today is Sunday, not a lot going on, try to find a spare 1 hr 40 mins to watch it with an open mind. (If you choose not to watch, for whatever reason, your replies will not be valid).

From Wikipedia: A conclusion of the film is that green energy cannot solve the problem of society's expanding resource depletion without reducing consumption, as all existing forms of energy generation require consumption of finite resources. The film argues that renewable energy sources, including biomass energy, wind power, and solar energy, are not as renewable as they are portrayed to be.

My opinions aren't based on a single source, so I prefer to verify claims that I am skeptical of as best as I can whether they support my own opinion or not. His film is filled with misleading information, inconsistencies, old information, some lies about the funding of scientific groups. This may lead some to believe that they are more polluting than fossil fuels which, despite this movie, they are not. Unfortunately, Moore could have phrased his message better so it didn't play into fossil fuel apologists copy-paste lexicons to discredit renewables.

That aside, I already mentioned that renewables are not perfect, but they are better than fossil fuel. There is no silver bullet and the world population isn't going to greatly slow its appetite for energy. People in the west continue to want their convenience and will continue to outsource their pollution to countries elsewhere, especially China, and the developing world is slowly ramping up it's own energy consumption as even the farmers in rural Cambodia gain access to the grid or have generators or solar installed to power lights and phones. Unless governments are going to begin regulating energy consumption, then this isn't going away till we get some magic solution like cold fusion (potentially never / too late), and given the reaction of many around the world to COVID, that would be a case of "Mah freedoms!" - people aren't good at looking at the bigger picture and inconveniencing themselves, even when their own doorstep is burning.

(Before whatwat jumps on the COVID mask wearing / isolating analogy, these people were acting this way we'll before we knew that the fatality rate is as low as it is - though even now masks are not a big ask)

newkidontheblock wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:47 am Please go on about how solar will save Cambodia on a cloudy day and during rainy season.

There are very few days where it is cloudy all day, and during the rainy season it is sunny much of the time besides the odd shower. Right now for example.

phuketrichard wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:07 am

Prime Minister HE warned in November that water levels at the country’s hydropower dams are running exceptionally low

The ancient city of Angkor collapsed in part due to over-reliance on an unreliable water supply.

newkidontheblock wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:47 am .... go back to the simple lives of rural Cambodians to save the planet?
The Khmer Rouge tried that.

Please go on about how solar will save Cambodia on a cloudy day and during rainy season.

Nuke, the only two people who have ever suggested on the pages of CEO to "go back to the simple lives of rural Cambodians to save the planet" - are the Khmer Rouge and Username Taken.
UT was being sarcastic, and relax, you don't have to fight the KR any more

As for the no solar power on cloudy days bit
I know this seems like a very basic game crasher
a bit like - you can't build a boat out of steel because it will sink.

If you read on this subject for 60 minutes you will see that it is fully factored into all considerations of this problem,
of course, and that solutions are emerging.

Thats why 72% of new power generation last year was from renewables. Way ahead of any prediction just 10 short years ago.
Thats why all the scientists and technology experts say fossil fuel use can be slashed much quicker than was thought even 5/10 years ago. The tech is there or under rapid development.
Thats why biz and industry orgs, leaders and gurus are rapidly clambering to get on board.

- Because steel ships can float, and power can be generated mostly by renewables on cloudy days.
if you use your brains and all kinds of new technology.

Seriously guys - if you basically formed your view on renewable energy more than only 5 years ago, after considering the basic issues/factors/tech/economics of the time - i suggest having another look.
The steel ship has already set sail my friends - no smoke this time, but it is already powering full steam.