Chinese Woman Flying From Cambodia Tests Positive for Coronavirus

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newkidontheblock
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Re: Chinese Woman Flying From Cambodia Tests Positive for Coronavirus

Post by newkidontheblock »

404FreedomNotFound -
A large number of members on CEO fits the demographic - older, multiple medical issues, smokers - that are hard hit by this coronavirus. Telling them to question the evolving data coming out and for everyone to ignore precautions means that there is higher likelihood that they will fall victim. I would feel terrible if I knew that I spread the virus that killed someone’s father, uncle, or husband in the Kingdom of Wonder. Of course there would be no evidence of the crime, since it would be through multiple contacts.

BTW, current tests depend on actively shedding virus particles in a large enough concentration at a particular time. A person can be tested positive multiple times, then negative, then positive depending on the virus cycle. Anti body test (exposure to the virus) is still on-going and will take weeks to process. Mass testing of everyone has not really rolled out. By and large those that have symptoms are tested (are in the hospital) and so it’s much more important to know those that have the virus. If a patient suddenly needs a ventilator to breathe, the chances that of not having the virus is a lot less likely at this time (ie, false positive).

Sorry for the long winded response.

Please everyone be safe out there.
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Re: Chinese Woman Flying From Cambodia Tests Positive for Coronavirus

Post by 404FreedomNotFound »

newkidontheblock wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:44 pm 404FreedomNotFound -
A large number of members on CEO fits the demographic - older, multiple medical issues, smokers - that are hard hit by this coronavirus. Telling them to question the evolving data coming out and for everyone to ignore precautions means that there is higher likelihood that they will fall victim. I would feel terrible if I knew that I spread the virus that killed someone’s father, uncle, or husband in the Kingdom of Wonder. Of course there would be no evidence of the crime, since it would be through multiple contacts.
I perfectly understand where you are coming from. I understand how hurtful my rhetoric must be for at risk people when I compare the hurts caused by the virus versus the confinement as they often won't impact the same category of people. The level of uncertainty on the whole issue lead me to backdown on advising other people on what to do, and I am now simply giving my opinion. And as you can see I even came back to this post in order to counter my own claims that might have leaned towards telling people what to do. (Apart from crunching number and being more thoughtful about what they read (including my own posts))

I always advise for precautions throughout my posts even for some precaution that cost a lot, like free-paid leave for people at risk and their care taker, and much more. If people followed my rhetoric, a lot more $ and man power would be available and hopefully used in order to help those old and sick people, most of whom have been given nothing but a special hour in the morning for them to resupply, not even free delivery in many EU countries. They have been given literally nothing here in cambodia apart from a free treatment.

This was for my rhetoric about the type of precautions and their impact from other posts.

When it comes to the fatality rate though :
I clearly stated that due to no vaccine against the coronavirus, it's effect will be more devastating than the flu for society if not controlled, regardless of any comparison in fatality-rate, the spread rate alone will take care of that.

But some people are lead to take harmful action through fear of being infected with something they sometime think more about as ebola while others act as if it's the flu not taking in account the lack of vaccine and the uncertainty we currently face, it's most likely none of those two. People don't know who to trust, and I believe leaving it to which source you trust, InfoWars or the BBC, Trump or the democrats, etc...etc... our politicians and media in general, mainstream or fake, dictate to you how to feel and how to act is the most harmful thing one could do including for our elders and sick. I simply remember to everyone that a lot of official reports from the WHO and the different health ministry are available which describe in depth how the stats have been collected. A lot of the conclusion from the expert can be directly read online, without reading them through the narrative of a newspaper, fakenews, social media or the politician mouth. And that when an article gives you information you should not only read the title but the content of the article to know what factor / country etc... lead to their results. My own results as far as you know could be based on a typo in my calculator and shouldn't be trusted by anyone other than myself.

The truth is somewhere in between saying the fatality rate is 0% and freaking out and buying so much hand sanitizers that the price go up and the market is flooded with fakes base on methanol or drinking fish cleaner in order to cure their covid-19 like I've heard a couple in the USA did in the media. I've heard some dumb people in Cambodia spraying their houses with RAID poison, and who knows how many more dumb and hurtful things is happening due to overly hyping the fear.
More intelligent people do get caught as well, with self medication falling ill to secondary effect of FDA approved drugs, scams, loosing money to fake test online or simply not finding a prescription they need because the overall fear hype made everyone buy chloroquine etc...

I am sure people on this forum are educated enough (or at least I hope so) not to do things as stupid as what I've seen some people doing or stories I've heard in the media, but you have to admit that overly playing on fear can be as hurtful as downplaying a serious matter. I'm not saying that the old people on the forum will drink fish cleaner, but the over hyping the fear isn't good either. Ain't that the UK that has that famous thingy about KEEP CALM? Well, for that we must stop the harmful rhetoric to people that they have 10% chance of dying cause ItalyDeath / ItalyCases * 100.


If lies are used to make wars, maybe truth can be used to make peace. I don't claim to hold the truth, but usually prefer a hard truth to a reassuring myth.


As for your comment on false positive, check out this in cambodia : http://www.cdcmoh.gov.kh/images/Documen ... 0.docx.pdf
Not that cambodia stats means anything anyway they can't even census their population correctly : P But you can imagine the scary false positive rate such a definition can lead toward. Those false positive means Real fatality rate should be higher than Death / Cases * 100, but when it's as vague as in cambodia, no way to put a number on it, I just discard stats from country like cambodia on covid-19.
Thank you for bringing up factors that actually increase the real fatality rate compared with Death/Cases*100. False positive is real in almost all countries to various degrees. Under playing real threats is as hurtful as hyping them. And we all know that we all tend to be biased.

I'm sure those must exist, but I can't think of a past event where the fear hyped by those in power helped the old, the sick, the poor, I believe those fear campaign tends to come with hurts for the most vulnerable among us.
I'll keep making profits and finding loopholes anyway no matter which rhetoric people choose to follow, but the old sick smoker and people vulnerable in general statistically tends to be the one who can't do that and ends up hurting of the greed for power and money of this world.

Now what about THAT for a long-winded response?? : P
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Re: Chinese Woman Flying From Cambodia Tests Positive for Coronavirus

Post by 404FreedomNotFound »

I would also like to add :
Devaluation of Assets, general liquidation problems, inflation affects disproportionately older people who tend to have more held assets and less monthly revenues than younger people. In EU countries where children don't literally go hungry olds and sick are those who dies from poor economics.
EU government have huge financial problems and try to cut on social spending for years, and what do we keep hearing them talk about as the main spending? Health care and Retirements. That's where they slash when they want the country to limit their spending. Well, if they couldn't pay for those before, good luck with it after the economic impact of the precautionary measures.
Most of the economic problems we will be facing might hurt people on this forum a lot. But as long as we do our best so that they can confine until we find a vaccine, they might prefer for the rest of us to keep working so that their assets are still worth something, and so that they still have enough retirement to live in good conditions once this is all over.
Old people should be the most concerned, we are not helping them stay confine as much as we could, if we couldn't find the money to pay for their retirement last year, and their social health care, and young healthy people who worked to pay for that last year stay at home and get indemnification for doing so (so not only stop producing but siphon more cash from the state). People on this forum if the demographic fits old and sick will be the most impacted.
Old and sick people are free to review fatality rates for people their age in the best pondered way possible, stay confined in their own home, and not feel insulted by the idea that now that you are securely confined, you should consider what will happen if you fall sick next year from a curable disease, but there is not enough money for the health care system to help you correctly, nor to pay for it yourself due to the devaluation or loss of your assets.

It is of course preferable to suffer the economic consequence than it is taking it's chance with a 100% chance of dying right now. But what about 50%? what about 2%? what about much lower if you confine yourself? What about being able to go back outside sooner if every young healthy adults rapidly builds immunity while you confine. Where do you draw the line is up to you, but what is the actual number is should matter to old and sick people as well, cause they stand to loose a lot both ways.

We don't have enough ventilators today because we didn't make enough before that.
What won't we have enough of next year that old people need the most, because young people are told to play video games all day this year.
Don't you have better chances of surviving the next economic crisis or the current health crisis? Taking in account that you can still confine yourself while the health crisis goes by.
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Re: Chinese Woman Flying From Cambodia Tests Positive for Coronavirus

Post by Clutch Cargo »

404FreedomNotFound wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:32 pm Now what about THAT for a long-winded response?? : P
That and your next post..

I asked on another topic to keep your posts concise and on topic. As it is, you're continuing to pollute topics with long winded, off topic posts that are convoluted. Please take note or I will simply remove any future such posts and/or issue a ban.
404FreedomNotFound
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Re: Chinese Woman Flying From Cambodia Tests Positive for Coronavirus

Post by 404FreedomNotFound »

clutchcargo wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:51 pm
404FreedomNotFound wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:32 pm Now what about THAT for a long-winded response?? : P
That and your next post..

I asked on another topic to keep your posts concise and on topic. As it is, you're continuing to pollute topics with long winded, off topic posts that are convoluted. Please take note or I will simply remove any future such posts and/or issue a ban.
Sorry, I haven't seen that comment from you on any other thread, you must have forgotten to mention me.
I will do my best to reduce the size of my posts, as for staying on topic, I was merely answering post about the fatality rate of Arget in my first post, making sure to follow admin requests in not providing false claims in the second. As for my last two post they were answering directly newkidontheblock, and believe I stayed on the subject of his remarks.
I understand the problem in readability of delving into long exchange away from the initial thread topic as well as making long post create, and will do my best on both front.
From the color of your name I believe you must have some administrative right, so you could move the discussion Arget's post initiated onto a new thread.
I'll make my best not to increase your workload in the future.
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newkidontheblock
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Re: Chinese Woman Flying From Cambodia Tests Positive for Coronavirus

Post by newkidontheblock »

Last off topic post on this issue (hopefully). Please read ‘And the Band Played On’. Chronicles the start of the AIDS epidemic. Read in-between the biased lines. HIV could have been sniffed out in the 1980s, then and there. But because all of the arguments about impingement personal freedom, questioning data, etc. as above, HIV wasn’t stopped. And now AIDS affects people worldwide.

Let’s get back to topic.
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Re: Chinese Woman Flying From Cambodia Tests Positive for Coronavirus

Post by finish_money »

I've been reading CEO for years and IMO it's easy to spot someone on uppers. Sometimes there's a juicy mystery involved and it makes for an interesting read. Other times it's just exhausting.
"You can't teach the beast. It's either in you or it isn't. You can't just go to the store and buy a six-pack of beast. It don't work like that." — Kevin Garnett
404FreedomNotFound
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Re: Chinese Woman Flying From Cambodia Tests Positive for Coronavirus

Post by 404FreedomNotFound »

finish_money wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:09 am I've been reading CEO for years and IMO it's easy to spot someone on uppers. Sometimes there's a juicy mystery involved and it makes for an interesting read. Other times it's just exhausting.
This is so damn true. Uppers fries people brains. So much so that some people can't even keep their focus on any more than 5 lines of text at once without becoming exhausted after taking uppers for a couple of years.
:D
Do like me, stick to coffee.
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