WJP rule of law; Cambodia 127 out of 128

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Re: WJP rule of law; Cambodia 127 out of 128

Post by Bitte_Kein_Lexus » Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:36 am

newkidontheblock wrote:
beaker wrote: I guess then USA is 128
Remember, for the posters who complain how corrupt and opaque things are in Cambodia, at least one poster knows where things are much worse.

More hopelessly corrupt than Cambodia could ever dream to be..

The USA.

BTW, the US was ranked 21, just below France.
No country is devoid of corruption. That being said, they have checks and balances on the power of the executive, different political parties, and so on. In Cambodia, corruption is essentially part of the social fabric. Want a license plate? Bribe. Want to go to school or do well in an exam? Bribe. Want a university degree? Bribe. Want to become a lawyer? Bribe. Want to get married? Bribe. Want a title to your house? Bribe. Want a judicial outcome in your favour? Bribe. Want to become a military officer? Bribe. Want to connect your electricity? Bribe. Ad infinitum.

So while you could easily argue that lobbying, the military industrial complex and so on are all clear signs of heavy corruption (I would agree), at least in the US, daily life is pretty much devoid of corruption. It's not like the DMV will ask for a bribe to tack on your license plate. Things here are made purposely difficult and lengthy so as to push citizens towards paying bribes, and there are few alternatives.

Some steps in the right direction have been made (new Aeon 2 passport office, to name just one example), but I think it's no secret to anyone who's travelled a bit that this is one of the most corrupt and nepotistic countries in the world. Walk by any government ministry and look at the fleet of cars, look at the assets of people in power and so on. It's all quite "out in the open", making it easy to score low on a ranking such as this one.
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Re: WJP rule of law; Cambodia 127 out of 128

Post by Spigzy » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:50 am

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:36 am
newkidontheblock wrote:
beaker wrote: I guess then USA is 128
Remember, for the posters who complain how corrupt and opaque things are in Cambodia, at least one poster knows where things are much worse.

More hopelessly corrupt than Cambodia could ever dream to be..

The USA.

BTW, the US was ranked 21, just below France.
No country is devoid of corruption. That being said, they have checks and balances on the power of the executive, different political parties, and so on. In Cambodia, corruption is essentially part of the social fabric. Want a license plate? Bribe. Want to go to school or do well in an exam? Bribe. Want a university degree? Bribe. Want to become a lawyer? Bribe. Want to get married? Bribe. Want a title to your house? Bribe. Want a judicial outcome in your favour? Bribe. Want to become a military officer? Bribe. Want to connect your electricity? Bribe. Ad infinitum.

So while you could easily argue that lobbying, the military industrial complex and so on are all clear signs of heavy corruption (I would agree), at least in the US, daily life is pretty much devoid of corruption. It's not like the DMV will ask for a bribe to tack on your license plate. Things here are made purposely difficult and lengthy so as to push citizens towards paying bribes, and there are few alternatives.

Some steps in the right direction have been made (new Aeon 2 passport office, to name just one example), but I think it's no secret to anyone who's travelled a bit that this is one of the most corrupt and nepotistic countries in the world. Walk by any government ministry and look at the fleet of cars, look at the assets of people in power and so on. It's all quite "out in the open", making it easy to score low on a ranking such as this one.
If the competent authorities simply put a fee schedule on that list and called it "Fast track/premium fee", Cambodia would probably float miraculously to the top & still get their middle-man coffers filling up.

E.g getting a UK passport (32 page, 50 page is an extra ten quid or so) ...
- £75.50 (3 weeks wait, collect from post office)
- £90.90 (3 weeks, Post office does all the application work + sent to your home address)
- £142.00 (1 week fast track service)
- £177.00 (1 day premium service)

I don't see much difference to the above here, except:
1. The standard "no faciliation" route takes longer than 3 weeks for sure.
2. The gap between "no faciliation" and "faciliation" cost is much wider.

But the principle is the same, if you want something done quickly, you pay a fee. Whilst the middle-men can choose their own fee, agree, call it corruption - but it isn't a million miles away from a simple "you pay more, it gets done faster" model of a "developed nation".
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Re: WJP rule of law; Cambodia 127 out of 128

Post by Bitte_Kein_Lexus » Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:35 pm


Spigzy wrote:If the competent authorities simply put a fee schedule on that list and called it "Fast track/premium fee", Cambodia would probably float miraculously to the top & still get their middle-man coffers filling up.

E.g getting a UK passport (32 page, 50 page is an extra ten quid or so) ...
- £75.50 (3 weeks wait, collect from post office)
- £90.90 (3 weeks, Post office does all the application work + sent to your home address)
- £142.00 (1 week fast track service)
- £177.00 (1 day premium service)

I don't see much difference to the above here, except:
1. The standard "no faciliation" route takes longer than 3 weeks for sure.
2. The gap between "no faciliation" and "faciliation" cost is much wider.

But the principle is the same, if you want something done quickly, you pay a fee. Whilst the middle-men can choose their own fee, agree, call it corruption - but it isn't a million miles away from a simple "you pay more, it gets done faster" model of a "developed nation".
It's now the same thing for the Cambodian passport. The difference lies in the details, as you mentioned. If the wait times are impossibly long, or the procedure so "complicated" that it's impossible to get the said paperwork/service without said "help", then it's a serious impediment to citizens' ability to receive basic government services. In the past, the passport process was the perfect example. Anything to prevent you from getting one for the "official" fee. "Oh, there's a typo in your family book, can't take it", "Oh, we can't issue you a birth certificate because of xx", "Need a stamp from sangkat/kanh", "Come back Monday" and so on. You basically needed a fixer to just get a plain old passport, even if not in a hurry. The process is now much more transparent, and if you were to ask Cambodians whether they think it's an improvement, I'd wager they'd all say it is. It's a downright pain to always have to find "the right guy", wonder about how much should be given and so on just to get some essential paperwork. To imply that the new system is akin to the old one in that's an equally corrupt "rebranding" is stretching it to 999 999 miles, to use your words.

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Re: WJP rule of law; Cambodia 127 out of 128

Post by phuketrichard » Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:40 pm

ok, i think the new passport system is great,all above board

BUT why do I, as a farang pay $30++ for a drivers license, while a Khmer pays $12+
Why do i, as a farang, need pay so dam much to marry a Khmer?
In a nation run by swine, all pigs are upward-mobile and the rest of us are fucked until we can put our acts together: not necessarily to win, but mainly to keep from losing completely. HST
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Re: WJP rule of law; Cambodia 127 out of 128

Post by Bitte_Kein_Lexus » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:35 pm

Those are issues as well, but I think the usual arguments of "we're foreigners in their country" would creep up, so I focus more on issues locals face. And let's face it, they have to deal with it more than we do. Most of them know of nothing different.

I agree with you though. The foreigner-Khmer marriage process is again, another example of something purposely drawn out and made overly complicated to ensure the vast majority opt for the fixer route, thus maximizing "profits". Unless you don't work (or work abroad), it's virtually impossible to get through the process on your own. They'll always find a little problem with one document or another, either on the the bride's side or the groom's. Of course, PTKIWI will quickly jump in to say it's technically possible, but it's yet another "service" (if you can call it that) that's designed to make people run around and get everyone a cut, rather than provide essential documentation to citizens in a streamlined and efficient way. People lounging around desks, work from 8:30-10:30 (plus breaks) and so on. Kind of like trying to get a big bike license 5+ years ago, or I remember the process for importing personal goods through the airport terminal... The epitome of Kafkaesque bureaucracy.
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