SternAAlbifrons wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:38 am Indonesia has one of the lowest murder rates in the world.
Famous for it.
The reason most cited by ALL the experts is the extremely low levels of gun ownership.
(plus other factors related to Islam generally being a religion of peace when practiced by non-Arabs)

I wouldn't agree with that. Whilst gun ownership per capita is "statistically" low, those that do have access: linked to military; police; ormas; gangs; use them disproportionately. Statistics won't show the true extent, because, well, it's the sort of place where data disappears. I was there in December watching the black flags march in central Jakarta. Questions like "so what town is it you live in, again?" tend to feel about as friendly as enquiries such as "how's your mother/wife/kids?".
You might find this documentary of interest:


I believe it costs about 10,000,000 IDR on average to have someone done in Indo (at least in the Jabodetabek are), considerably less for a petrol bomb into the house or a beating. Low level "doormen" seem sanguine about slapping someone up for 100,000 IDR. Soldiers earn about 9,000,000/month, and are more expensive than "doormen".
Of course, it depends on the profile of the target. Particular ethnic groups are known for it, using euphemisms such as "debt collector" or those linked to OrMas or any groups linked to the 9 dragons. Personal security firms do business here and it generally involves "negotiating" a way out of a problem to avoid escalation.
I couldn't confirm whether Indo Police have been known to execute burglars by shooting or drowning to avoid tedious paperwork, and become responsive to requests to investigate with bungs of at least 2 Mil, but you can always go there and enquire. You can't compare statistical data from a place like Indo with a place like the USA.
When it comes to violence, It is predominantly a blade & mob culture, machetes and such (also a very supersitious culture); but guns with codes machined off are available for a few hundred bucks, particularly around Bandung, where they are manufactured. If you have the correct senior position in a company, it's possible to get a fire-arms licence, but it's not unheard of for foreigners to enjoy a spot of recreational shooting out in the countryside with local friends, without such things.

This thread has inevitably degenerated into a statistical war of attrition, but for statistical comparisons to work, local conditions need to be understood, and the reliability of the data from different places needs to be taken into account. I don't think the quality of statistics in the developing world is as reliable as that of the developed world.

I hope you are not suggesting "killer bodies" be outlawed as well.

CaptainNemo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:17 pm

SternAAlbifrons wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:38 am Indonesia has one of the lowest murder rates in the world.
Famous for it.
The reason most cited by ALL the experts is the extremely low levels of gun ownership.
(plus other factors related to Islam generally being a religion of peace when practiced by non-Arabs)

Questions like "so what town is it you live in, again?" tend to feel about as friendly as enquiries such as "how's your mother/wife/kids?".
You might find this documentary of interest:

Anthony's Weiner wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:18 pm I hope you are not suggesting "killer bodies" be outlawed as well.

Christ, I hope not. I love a killer body.

Yes the murder rate for Indonesia varies depending the sources from as low as 0.4 to 8.1

What we CAN say is - in certain countries, the general population are more willing to use violence than others, even if they have less weapons

Brody wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:43 pm

Anthony's Weiner wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:18 pm I hope you are not suggesting "killer bodies" be outlawed as well.

Christ, I hope not. I love a killer body.

A convincing argument to get your weapon out

Indo girls with guns?

Fantasy


Reality

Mishmash wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:44 pm Yes the murder rate for Indonesia varies depending the sources from as low as 0.4 to 8.1

What we CAN say is - in certain countries, the general population are more willing to use violence than others, even if they have less weapons

...and place to place within country. I felt a lot safer at night in Jakarta than in London; but it does depend on what you're up to, and who with, as well as where, and when.

CaptainNemo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:57 pm

Mishmash wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:44 pm Yes the murder rate for Indonesia varies depending the sources from as low as 0.4 to 8.1

What we CAN say is - in certain countries, the general population are more willing to use violence than others, even if they have less weapons

...and place to place within country. I felt a lot safer at night in Jakarta than in London; but it does depend on what you're up to, and who with, as well as where, and when.

Perfectly true. There are safe zones and no-go zones anywhere.

LOL
ain't CEO a wonderful enhancement to our lives.

Thanks everyone. Love you all today, and laughing at us all.

(but still intend to fight half of you to the death tomorrow morning
- about anything..)