Condo market slowdown expected as elections approach.

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Duncan
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Re: As Skylines Transform, Local Buyers Persist With Familiar Housing Options

Post by Duncan » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:55 pm

rogerrabbit wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:54 pm
Kammekor wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:42 pm
rogerrabbit wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:12 pm
armchairlawyer wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:44 pm
rogerrabbit wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:25 pm

During rush hour it takes around 1 hour from both places to get to Vattanac tower according to google maps. So spending 8-12 hours each week commuting to work doesn't sound that appealing.
Maybe worth noting that it would take quite a long time to commute from/to most of the major condo locations (Olympic, Koh Pich, Russian Blvd, Tuol Kork) to Vattanac Tower.
From Toul Kork of course (Toul Kork is worst possible place to buy anything imo) but not from those other places you mention. During peak hours travelling time is max. 30 mins. And if one is buying +80k property you might factor the future development as well. It's much more likely you would have some sort of train/tram/metro line going near your home if you live in area like Olympic/Koh Pich/HE blvd then area like Borey Peng Huoth the Star Premier.
If you're under 30 you might live long enough to see that happen. During the 10 years I've been around I've seen a zillion plans and the introduction of some city buses actually happened.
I guess I have more positive view on things. JICAs has been planning one for what past 6-7 years and now the planning phase ends soon. Bus or any public transport system planning phase takes years, even decade. And Phnom Penh was very different place 10 years ago. Construction can easily again take another decade. I'm fairly sure we see some train based public transport system that work fairly well (not like the airport train) before 2030 in Phnom Penh too. It will not be extensive network but I'm confident that first line(s) will be running by that time.

But anyways the original article quoted by Adam was about locals who were around 30yo and had bought condo in city, and my posts were more related to them, than middle aged or older expats who most likely will not live rest of their lives in this city.


PP has changed so much over the last 6 -7 years it's time to start a new planning stage. If JICA s planning is anything like the drainage scheme where water is dumped into the Tonlie / Mekong then it's time for the Chinese to take over.



Even the donated Jap City Buses are a poor design compared to the Chinese donated City Buses
Cambodia,,,, Don't fall in love with her.
Like the spoilt child she is, she will not be happy till she destroys herself from within and breaks your heart.
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Re: As Skylines Transform, Local Buyers Persist With Familiar Housing Options

Post by rogerrabbit » Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:52 pm

Adam Xie wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:34 pm
rogerrabbit wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:12 pm
armchairlawyer wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:44 pm
rogerrabbit wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:25 pm

During rush hour it takes around 1 hour from both places to get to Vattanac tower according to google maps. So spending 8-12 hours each week commuting to work doesn't sound that appealing.
Maybe worth noting that it would take quite a long time to commute from/to most of the major condo locations (Olympic, Koh Pich, Russian Blvd, Tuol Kork) to Vattanac Tower.
From Toul Kork of course (Toul Kork is worst possible place to buy anything imo) but not from those other places you mention. During peak hours travelling time is max. 30 mins. And if one is buying +80k property you might factor the future development as well. It's much more likely you would have some sort of train/tram/metro line going near your home if you live in area like Olympic/Koh Pich/HE blvd then area like Borey Peng Huoth the Star Premier.
You are not using the optimal road, trust me, I got colleagues living in both community, and working place is right beside Vatanak, they usually takes 25-30m to get to office. Arata is a bit far, so took about 45 minutes
What time do they arrive to office? And how long it takes for the to get back home? My friend who lives in Grand Phnom Penh (which is next to Borey Peng Huoth I believe?) has started to go office after 9am and go back home either before 5pm or then stay in city until 8pm to avoid the traffic. You can even check from Google maps the driving times. The google maps estimations are based on actual current data. And you have to remember if you are local, you most likely cannot choose the time you arrive to office.

And btw in your original post you said it takes less than 30 mins from Arata and Peng Huoth, but now you are already saying it's more like 45mins from Arata. That takes already 1 hour more per day to get to work when you live in your villa vs condo in city. And you seriously think the traffic is going to ease any time soon? And there will not be train lines etc going to Arata within next 20 years for sure.
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Re: As Skylines Transform, Local Buyers Persist With Familiar Housing Options

Post by Adam Xie » Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:32 pm

rogerrabbit wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:52 pm
Adam Xie wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:34 pm
rogerrabbit wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:12 pm
armchairlawyer wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:44 pm
rogerrabbit wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:25 pm

During rush hour it takes around 1 hour from both places to get to Vattanac tower according to google maps. So spending 8-12 hours each week commuting to work doesn't sound that appealing.
Maybe worth noting that it would take quite a long time to commute from/to most of the major condo locations (Olympic, Koh Pich, Russian Blvd, Tuol Kork) to Vattanac Tower.
From Toul Kork of course (Toul Kork is worst possible place to buy anything imo) but not from those other places you mention. During peak hours travelling time is max. 30 mins. And if one is buying +80k property you might factor the future development as well. It's much more likely you would have some sort of train/tram/metro line going near your home if you live in area like Olympic/Koh Pich/HE blvd then area like Borey Peng Huoth the Star Premier.
You are not using the optimal road, trust me, I got colleagues living in both community, and working place is right beside Vatanak, they usually takes 25-30m to get to office. Arata is a bit far, so took about 45 minutes
What time do they arrive to office? And how long it takes for the to get back home? My friend who lives in Grand Phnom Penh (which is next to Borey Peng Huoth I believe?) has started to go office after 9am and go back home either before 5pm or then stay in city until 8pm to avoid the traffic. You can even check from Google maps the driving times. The google maps estimations are based on actual current data. And you have to remember if you are local, you most likely cannot choose the time you arrive to office.

And btw in your original post you said it takes less than 30 mins from Arata and Peng Huoth, but now you are already saying it's more like 45mins from Arata. That takes already 1 hour more per day to get to work when you live in your villa vs condo in city. And you seriously think the traffic is going to ease any time soon? And there will not be train lines etc going to Arata within next 20 years for sure.
Dude, come and have personal experience, don't just google everything,

1. they arrived 8am or 7:55am (their office is inside Boeng Kok area, the development zone right opposite Vatanak tower)
2. At evening The one at PH takes 35 minuts to go back, Arata took about 1 hour (due to evening traffic congestion), they both need to leave around 5:00pm
3. Please ask your friend what is the time that he/she left home?
4. Ok, there are variance, I admit it, the point is, middle income people still prefer Landed house than Condo, even add above mentioned traffic costs, landed house still worthy , because what people paid for Condo is far exceeding the value of time that saved on traffic.
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Re: As Skylines Transform, Local Buyers Persist With Familiar Housing Options

Post by rogerrabbit » Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:04 pm

Adam Xie wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:32 pm
rogerrabbit wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:52 pm
Adam Xie wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:34 pm
rogerrabbit wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:12 pm
armchairlawyer wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:44 pm


Maybe worth noting that it would take quite a long time to commute from/to most of the major condo locations (Olympic, Koh Pich, Russian Blvd, Tuol Kork) to Vattanac Tower.
From Toul Kork of course (Toul Kork is worst possible place to buy anything imo) but not from those other places you mention. During peak hours travelling time is max. 30 mins. And if one is buying +80k property you might factor the future development as well. It's much more likely you would have some sort of train/tram/metro line going near your home if you live in area like Olympic/Koh Pich/HE blvd then area like Borey Peng Huoth the Star Premier.
You are not using the optimal road, trust me, I got colleagues living in both community, and working place is right beside Vatanak, they usually takes 25-30m to get to office. Arata is a bit far, so took about 45 minutes
What time do they arrive to office? And how long it takes for the to get back home? My friend who lives in Grand Phnom Penh (which is next to Borey Peng Huoth I believe?) has started to go office after 9am and go back home either before 5pm or then stay in city until 8pm to avoid the traffic. You can even check from Google maps the driving times. The google maps estimations are based on actual current data. And you have to remember if you are local, you most likely cannot choose the time you arrive to office.

And btw in your original post you said it takes less than 30 mins from Arata and Peng Huoth, but now you are already saying it's more like 45mins from Arata. That takes already 1 hour more per day to get to work when you live in your villa vs condo in city. And you seriously think the traffic is going to ease any time soon? And there will not be train lines etc going to Arata within next 20 years for sure.
Dude, come and have personal experience, don't just google everything,

1. they arrived 8am or 7:55am (their office is inside Boeng Kok area, the development zone right opposite Vatanak tower)
2. At evening The one at PH takes 35 minuts to go back, Arata took about 1 hour (due to evening traffic congestion), they both need to leave around 5:00pm
3. Please ask your friend what is the time that he/she left home?
4. Ok, there are variance, I admit it, the point is, middle income people still prefer Landed house than Condo, even add above mentioned traffic costs, landed house still worthy , because what people paid for Condo is far exceeding the value of time that saved on traffic.
Well I do prefer to rely more on data than opinions or hearsay. And few times when I have driven there, to be honest it has took way more than 30mins and I never went there during rush hours. Though to be fair my starting point has been little further than Vattanac. Does your friends use a car or a motorbike?

3. He used to arrive office by 8.30am. Now days he leaves around 9.00am and still it takes min. 25 minutes on a good day. When he left earlier it took anything from 40-90 minutes, average being around 45 minutes in morning and average 55 minutes in evening. I know this because he timed his journey every morning and evening for 2-3 weeks. They use a car as it's the whole family who travels this same trip every day.

4. Well I guess that is subjective thing. What one values. Sitting in a car or being with your family, enjoying your hobby etc. And middle income people attitude is changing when it comes to landed house vs condo. Many who I know that are in their early 20s are actually inclined purchasing condo in next few years if their parents wouldn't oppose so much. Couple have already bought one too. Reasoning being every year worsening traffic (safety, time, pollution), "urban" lifestyle (favourite bars, restaurants, shops, entertainment near them).

The fact is that the traffic will get just worse in future but if you live within city area you might be able to use train to get to your office. You can get 2-3br condo unit along the possible future train line, that is currently within 30minutes during peak hours from Vattanac, for 50-80k.
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Re: As Skylines Transform, Local Buyers Persist With Familiar Housing Options

Post by Adam Xie » Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:11 pm

rogerrabbit wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:04 pm
Adam Xie wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:32 pm
rogerrabbit wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:52 pm
Adam Xie wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:34 pm
rogerrabbit wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:12 pm


From Toul Kork of course (Toul Kork is worst possible place to buy anything imo) but not from those other places you mention. During peak hours travelling time is max. 30 mins. And if one is buying +80k property you might factor the future development as well. It's much more likely you would have some sort of train/tram/metro line going near your home if you live in area like Olympic/Koh Pich/HE blvd then area like Borey Peng Huoth the Star Premier.
You are not using the optimal road, trust me, I got colleagues living in both community, and working place is right beside Vatanak, they usually takes 25-30m to get to office. Arata is a bit far, so took about 45 minutes
What time do they arrive to office? And how long it takes for the to get back home? My friend who lives in Grand Phnom Penh (which is next to Borey Peng Huoth I believe?) has started to go office after 9am and go back home either before 5pm or then stay in city until 8pm to avoid the traffic. You can even check from Google maps the driving times. The google maps estimations are based on actual current data. And you have to remember if you are local, you most likely cannot choose the time you arrive to office.

And btw in your original post you said it takes less than 30 mins from Arata and Peng Huoth, but now you are already saying it's more like 45mins from Arata. That takes already 1 hour more per day to get to work when you live in your villa vs condo in city. And you seriously think the traffic is going to ease any time soon? And there will not be train lines etc going to Arata within next 20 years for sure.
Dude, come and have personal experience, don't just google everything,

1. they arrived 8am or 7:55am (their office is inside Boeng Kok area, the development zone right opposite Vatanak tower)
2. At evening The one at PH takes 35 minuts to go back, Arata took about 1 hour (due to evening traffic congestion), they both need to leave around 5:00pm
3. Please ask your friend what is the time that he/she left home?
4. Ok, there are variance, I admit it, the point is, middle income people still prefer Landed house than Condo, even add above mentioned traffic costs, landed house still worthy , because what people paid for Condo is far exceeding the value of time that saved on traffic.
Well I do prefer to rely more on data than opinions or hearsay. And few times when I have driven there, to be honest it has took way more than 30mins and I never went there during rush hours. Though to be fair my starting point has been little further than Vattanac. Does your friends use a car or a motorbike?

3. He used to arrive office by 8.30am. Now days he leaves around 9.00am and still it takes min. 25 minutes on a good day. When he left earlier it took anything from 40-90 minutes, average being around 45 minutes in morning and average 55 minutes in evening. I know this because he timed his journey every morning and evening for 2-3 weeks. They use a car as it's the whole family who travels this same trip every day.

4. Well I guess that is subjective thing. What one values. Sitting in a car or being with your family, enjoying your hobby etc. And middle income people attitude is changing when it comes to landed house vs condo. Many who I know that are in their early 20s are actually inclined purchasing condo in next few years if their parents wouldn't oppose so much. Couple have already bought one too. Reasoning being every year worsening traffic (safety, time, pollution), "urban" lifestyle (favourite bars, restaurants, shops, entertainment near them).

The fact is that the traffic will get just worse in future but if you live within city area you might be able to use train to get to your office. You can get 2-3br condo unit along the possible future train line, that is currently within 30minutes during peak hours from Vattanac, for 50-80k.
Are you Chinese?
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Re: As Skylines Transform, Local Buyers Persist With Familiar Housing Options

Post by rogerrabbit » Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:12 pm

Adam Xie wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:11 pm
rogerrabbit wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:04 pm
Adam Xie wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:32 pm
rogerrabbit wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:52 pm
Adam Xie wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:34 pm


You are not using the optimal road, trust me, I got colleagues living in both community, and working place is right beside Vatanak, they usually takes 25-30m to get to office. Arata is a bit far, so took about 45 minutes
What time do they arrive to office? And how long it takes for the to get back home? My friend who lives in Grand Phnom Penh (which is next to Borey Peng Huoth I believe?) has started to go office after 9am and go back home either before 5pm or then stay in city until 8pm to avoid the traffic. You can even check from Google maps the driving times. The google maps estimations are based on actual current data. And you have to remember if you are local, you most likely cannot choose the time you arrive to office.

And btw in your original post you said it takes less than 30 mins from Arata and Peng Huoth, but now you are already saying it's more like 45mins from Arata. That takes already 1 hour more per day to get to work when you live in your villa vs condo in city. And you seriously think the traffic is going to ease any time soon? And there will not be train lines etc going to Arata within next 20 years for sure.
Dude, come and have personal experience, don't just google everything,

1. they arrived 8am or 7:55am (their office is inside Boeng Kok area, the development zone right opposite Vatanak tower)
2. At evening The one at PH takes 35 minuts to go back, Arata took about 1 hour (due to evening traffic congestion), they both need to leave around 5:00pm
3. Please ask your friend what is the time that he/she left home?
4. Ok, there are variance, I admit it, the point is, middle income people still prefer Landed house than Condo, even add above mentioned traffic costs, landed house still worthy , because what people paid for Condo is far exceeding the value of time that saved on traffic.
Well I do prefer to rely more on data than opinions or hearsay. And few times when I have driven there, to be honest it has took way more than 30mins and I never went there during rush hours. Though to be fair my starting point has been little further than Vattanac. Does your friends use a car or a motorbike?

3. He used to arrive office by 8.30am. Now days he leaves around 9.00am and still it takes min. 25 minutes on a good day. When he left earlier it took anything from 40-90 minutes, average being around 45 minutes in morning and average 55 minutes in evening. I know this because he timed his journey every morning and evening for 2-3 weeks. They use a car as it's the whole family who travels this same trip every day.

4. Well I guess that is subjective thing. What one values. Sitting in a car or being with your family, enjoying your hobby etc. And middle income people attitude is changing when it comes to landed house vs condo. Many who I know that are in their early 20s are actually inclined purchasing condo in next few years if their parents wouldn't oppose so much. Couple have already bought one too. Reasoning being every year worsening traffic (safety, time, pollution), "urban" lifestyle (favourite bars, restaurants, shops, entertainment near them).

The fact is that the traffic will get just worse in future but if you live within city area you might be able to use train to get to your office. You can get 2-3br condo unit along the possible future train line, that is currently within 30minutes during peak hours from Vattanac, for 50-80k.
Are you Chinese?
Nope.
Adam Xie
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Re: As Skylines Transform, Local Buyers Persist With Familiar Housing Options

Post by Adam Xie » Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:52 pm

rogerrabbit wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:12 pm
Adam Xie wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:11 pm
rogerrabbit wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:04 pm
Adam Xie wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:32 pm
rogerrabbit wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:52 pm


What time do they arrive to office? And how long it takes for the to get back home? My friend who lives in Grand Phnom Penh (which is next to Borey Peng Huoth I believe?) has started to go office after 9am and go back home either before 5pm or then stay in city until 8pm to avoid the traffic. You can even check from Google maps the driving times. The google maps estimations are based on actual current data. And you have to remember if you are local, you most likely cannot choose the time you arrive to office.

And btw in your original post you said it takes less than 30 mins from Arata and Peng Huoth, but now you are already saying it's more like 45mins from Arata. That takes already 1 hour more per day to get to work when you live in your villa vs condo in city. And you seriously think the traffic is going to ease any time soon? And there will not be train lines etc going to Arata within next 20 years for sure.
Dude, come and have personal experience, don't just google everything,

1. they arrived 8am or 7:55am (their office is inside Boeng Kok area, the development zone right opposite Vatanak tower)
2. At evening The one at PH takes 35 minuts to go back, Arata took about 1 hour (due to evening traffic congestion), they both need to leave around 5:00pm
3. Please ask your friend what is the time that he/she left home?
4. Ok, there are variance, I admit it, the point is, middle income people still prefer Landed house than Condo, even add above mentioned traffic costs, landed house still worthy , because what people paid for Condo is far exceeding the value of time that saved on traffic.
Well I do prefer to rely more on data than opinions or hearsay. And few times when I have driven there, to be honest it has took way more than 30mins and I never went there during rush hours. Though to be fair my starting point has been little further than Vattanac. Does your friends use a car or a motorbike?

3. He used to arrive office by 8.30am. Now days he leaves around 9.00am and still it takes min. 25 minutes on a good day. When he left earlier it took anything from 40-90 minutes, average being around 45 minutes in morning and average 55 minutes in evening. I know this because he timed his journey every morning and evening for 2-3 weeks. They use a car as it's the whole family who travels this same trip every day.

4. Well I guess that is subjective thing. What one values. Sitting in a car or being with your family, enjoying your hobby etc. And middle income people attitude is changing when it comes to landed house vs condo. Many who I know that are in their early 20s are actually inclined purchasing condo in next few years if their parents wouldn't oppose so much. Couple have already bought one too. Reasoning being every year worsening traffic (safety, time, pollution), "urban" lifestyle (favourite bars, restaurants, shops, entertainment near them).

The fact is that the traffic will get just worse in future but if you live within city area you might be able to use train to get to your office. You can get 2-3br condo unit along the possible future train line, that is currently within 30minutes during peak hours from Vattanac, for 50-80k.
Are you Chinese?
Nope.
Great, but your last point reminds me of typical advertising word from Chinese developers: City Centre! 5M to every where! Beside train line! Nearby School and major shopping centre, etc etc, ha ha ha ha.

Ok, about traffic time between your friends and my friends, I will withdraw from this topic, you win.

However here is an interesting point I would like to brought up, assume the place you come from, condo can last at least for 50 years or more (which should be like that), what if I tell you, 80% of the condo you see now a days being build in PP may be only last for 25 years or less, yet its price is similar to a landed property.

The point is, when landed house collaps, owner still got ownership of land, can rebuild property on the land as long as within criteria set up by law, but if its a condo, you don't get that freedom with strata title, yet, both property are at similar price isn't very logical isn't it?

Based on property agency research, Condo with reasonable price is welcome by middle income people , the total price should only be around about 70% of landed property price, however currently in PP, Condo with such price are not at city centre (for example urban village project), or either their quality is so bad which is not healthy for daily living.
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Re: As Skylines Transform, Local Buyers Persist With Familiar Housing Options

Post by rogerrabbit » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:51 pm

Adam Xie wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:52 pm
rogerrabbit wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:12 pm
Adam Xie wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:11 pm
rogerrabbit wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:04 pm
Adam Xie wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:32 pm


Dude, come and have personal experience, don't just google everything,

1. they arrived 8am or 7:55am (their office is inside Boeng Kok area, the development zone right opposite Vatanak tower)
2. At evening The one at PH takes 35 minuts to go back, Arata took about 1 hour (due to evening traffic congestion), they both need to leave around 5:00pm
3. Please ask your friend what is the time that he/she left home?
4. Ok, there are variance, I admit it, the point is, middle income people still prefer Landed house than Condo, even add above mentioned traffic costs, landed house still worthy , because what people paid for Condo is far exceeding the value of time that saved on traffic.
Well I do prefer to rely more on data than opinions or hearsay. And few times when I have driven there, to be honest it has took way more than 30mins and I never went there during rush hours. Though to be fair my starting point has been little further than Vattanac. Does your friends use a car or a motorbike?

3. He used to arrive office by 8.30am. Now days he leaves around 9.00am and still it takes min. 25 minutes on a good day. When he left earlier it took anything from 40-90 minutes, average being around 45 minutes in morning and average 55 minutes in evening. I know this because he timed his journey every morning and evening for 2-3 weeks. They use a car as it's the whole family who travels this same trip every day.

4. Well I guess that is subjective thing. What one values. Sitting in a car or being with your family, enjoying your hobby etc. And middle income people attitude is changing when it comes to landed house vs condo. Many who I know that are in their early 20s are actually inclined purchasing condo in next few years if their parents wouldn't oppose so much. Couple have already bought one too. Reasoning being every year worsening traffic (safety, time, pollution), "urban" lifestyle (favourite bars, restaurants, shops, entertainment near them).

The fact is that the traffic will get just worse in future but if you live within city area you might be able to use train to get to your office. You can get 2-3br condo unit along the possible future train line, that is currently within 30minutes during peak hours from Vattanac, for 50-80k.
Are you Chinese?
Nope.
Great, but your last point reminds me of typical advertising word from Chinese developers: City Centre! 5M to every where! Beside train line! Nearby School and major shopping centre, etc etc, ha ha ha ha.

Ok, about traffic time between your friends and my friends, I will withdraw from this topic, you win.

However here is an interesting point I would like to brought up, assume the place you come from, condo can last at least for 50 years or more (which should be like that), what if I tell you, 80% of the condo you see now a days being build in PP may be only last for 25 years or less, yet its price is similar to a landed property.

The point is, when landed house collaps, owner still got ownership of land, can rebuild property on the land as long as within criteria set up by law, but if its a condo, you don't get that freedom with strata title, yet, both property are at similar price isn't very logical isn't it?

Based on property agency research, Condo with reasonable price is welcome by middle income people , the total price should only be around about 70% of landed property price, however currently in PP, Condo with such price are not at city centre (for example urban village project), or either their quality is so bad which is not healthy for daily living.
I have been on many sites and I would argue that the percentage of buildings that are built to last more than 25 years is much higher than 20%. Sure some are build to last 25 years but majority do last long too. For average joe who doesn't know much about construction it's always bit of a gamble when buying a property.
But of course that is one of the advantages for landed house. No question about it.

And as you bring Urban Village project as an example, if you would have bought 2br unit from that project when they launched you could have get one for under $60k. I believe you still can get one under $100k. Similar size flat/shophouse with similar amenities next door there are asking $200k+. I was looking some shop houses there just last week. Even simple local standard 2br shophouse on a 100m2 plot 5-10 minutes further away from Urban Village is now $100k without any amenities.
Adam Xie
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Re: As Skylines Transform, Local Buyers Persist With Familiar Housing Options

Post by Adam Xie » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:31 am

rogerrabbit wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:51 pm
Adam Xie wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:52 pm
rogerrabbit wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:12 pm
Adam Xie wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:11 pm
rogerrabbit wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:04 pm


Well I do prefer to rely more on data than opinions or hearsay. And few times when I have driven there, to be honest it has took way more than 30mins and I never went there during rush hours. Though to be fair my starting point has been little further than Vattanac. Does your friends use a car or a motorbike?

3. He used to arrive office by 8.30am. Now days he leaves around 9.00am and still it takes min. 25 minutes on a good day. When he left earlier it took anything from 40-90 minutes, average being around 45 minutes in morning and average 55 minutes in evening. I know this because he timed his journey every morning and evening for 2-3 weeks. They use a car as it's the whole family who travels this same trip every day.

4. Well I guess that is subjective thing. What one values. Sitting in a car or being with your family, enjoying your hobby etc. And middle income people attitude is changing when it comes to landed house vs condo. Many who I know that are in their early 20s are actually inclined purchasing condo in next few years if their parents wouldn't oppose so much. Couple have already bought one too. Reasoning being every year worsening traffic (safety, time, pollution), "urban" lifestyle (favourite bars, restaurants, shops, entertainment near them).

The fact is that the traffic will get just worse in future but if you live within city area you might be able to use train to get to your office. You can get 2-3br condo unit along the possible future train line, that is currently within 30minutes during peak hours from Vattanac, for 50-80k.
Are you Chinese?
Nope.
Great, but your last point reminds me of typical advertising word from Chinese developers: City Centre! 5M to every where! Beside train line! Nearby School and major shopping centre, etc etc, ha ha ha ha.

Ok, about traffic time between your friends and my friends, I will withdraw from this topic, you win.

However here is an interesting point I would like to brought up, assume the place you come from, condo can last at least for 50 years or more (which should be like that), what if I tell you, 80% of the condo you see now a days being build in PP may be only last for 25 years or less, yet its price is similar to a landed property.

The point is, when landed house collaps, owner still got ownership of land, can rebuild property on the land as long as within criteria set up by law, but if its a condo, you don't get that freedom with strata title, yet, both property are at similar price isn't very logical isn't it?

Based on property agency research, Condo with reasonable price is welcome by middle income people , the total price should only be around about 70% of landed property price, however currently in PP, Condo with such price are not at city centre (for example urban village project), or either their quality is so bad which is not healthy for daily living.
I have been on many sites and I would argue that the percentage of buildings that are built to last more than 25 years is much higher than 20%. Sure some are build to last 25 years but majority do last long too. For average joe who doesn't know much about construction it's always bit of a gamble when buying a property.
But of course that is one of the advantages for landed house. No question about it.

And as you bring Urban Village project as an example, if you would have bought 2br unit from that project when they launched you could have get one for under $60k. I believe you still can get one under $100k. Similar size flat/shophouse with similar amenities next door there are asking $200k+. I was looking some shop houses there just last week. Even simple local standard 2br shophouse on a 100m2 plot 5-10 minutes further away from Urban Village is now $100k without any amenities.
If "the city" you mean refers to the "old Phnom Penh city area", I am sorry man, no condo unit inside this area is less than 2500/M2 (after taken account of common area which currently about 25% in the market), and please note that Condo I refers to, are those with design that allows similar air flow and natural light exposure condition to shop house,

So, lets do a simple math, Condo unit suitable for a middle income family with 2 kids usually requires at least 130M2 (net) , apply the average market price 2500/M2 (assume this is the net area price/M2) , 130M2 x USD2500 = USD325,000, with this price you can buy a 3 floor Twin Villa at PH Star premier or a nice 3 floor Link Villa at PH Chbap Ambov Land + house)

Which one previle is obvious

Finally, Urban village so far is one of the best example (Value for money aspect) for affordable condo development in PP inline with local market demand, but we can't find other similar project in Old city area at moment (Take Olympia for example).
rogerrabbit
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Re: As Skylines Transform, Local Buyers Persist With Familiar Housing Options

Post by rogerrabbit » Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:42 pm

Adam Xie wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:31 am
rogerrabbit wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:51 pm
Adam Xie wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:52 pm
rogerrabbit wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:12 pm
Adam Xie wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:11 pm


Are you Chinese?
Nope.
Great, but your last point reminds me of typical advertising word from Chinese developers: City Centre! 5M to every where! Beside train line! Nearby School and major shopping centre, etc etc, ha ha ha ha.

Ok, about traffic time between your friends and my friends, I will withdraw from this topic, you win.

However here is an interesting point I would like to brought up, assume the place you come from, condo can last at least for 50 years or more (which should be like that), what if I tell you, 80% of the condo you see now a days being build in PP may be only last for 25 years or less, yet its price is similar to a landed property.

The point is, when landed house collaps, owner still got ownership of land, can rebuild property on the land as long as within criteria set up by law, but if its a condo, you don't get that freedom with strata title, yet, both property are at similar price isn't very logical isn't it?

Based on property agency research, Condo with reasonable price is welcome by middle income people , the total price should only be around about 70% of landed property price, however currently in PP, Condo with such price are not at city centre (for example urban village project), or either their quality is so bad which is not healthy for daily living.
I have been on many sites and I would argue that the percentage of buildings that are built to last more than 25 years is much higher than 20%. Sure some are build to last 25 years but majority do last long too. For average joe who doesn't know much about construction it's always bit of a gamble when buying a property.
But of course that is one of the advantages for landed house. No question about it.

And as you bring Urban Village project as an example, if you would have bought 2br unit from that project when they launched you could have get one for under $60k. I believe you still can get one under $100k. Similar size flat/shophouse with similar amenities next door there are asking $200k+. I was looking some shop houses there just last week. Even simple local standard 2br shophouse on a 100m2 plot 5-10 minutes further away from Urban Village is now $100k without any amenities.
If "the city" you mean refers to the "old Phnom Penh city area", I am sorry man, no condo unit inside this area is less than 2500/M2 (after taken account of common area which currently about 25% in the market), and please note that Condo I refers to, are those with design that allows similar air flow and natural light exposure condition to shop house,

So, lets do a simple math, Condo unit suitable for a middle income family with 2 kids usually requires at least 130M2 (net) , apply the average market price 2500/M2 (assume this is the net area price/M2) , 130M2 x USD2500 = USD325,000, with this price you can buy a 3 floor Twin Villa at PH Star premier or a nice 3 floor Link Villa at PH Chbap Ambov Land + house)

Which one previle is obvious

Finally, Urban village so far is one of the best example (Value for money aspect) for affordable condo development in PP inline with local market demand, but we can't find other similar project in Old city area at moment (Take Olympia for example).
Well I don't know about your requirements of "air flow and natural light", but you can find multiple well built, what I would consider with a good airflow and natural light exposure, for under 2000/m2, that are within 30 minutes drive in peak hours from Vattanac. Especially if you buy off the plan, when the condo is still under construction or straight from the developer. And you keep comparing oranges to apples. You compare a landed house middle of nowhere to condo unit in a prime location. Of course if you get a condo unit in prime location you have to get smaller size property vs when you buy property 1 hour from city. If you have kids, you might want to get big landed house far from city. But the article you linked was about young single Cambodian guy or who just got married. So they were getting their first place. Then many times city life in smaller property wins over country side.

I think we can say the discussion is over as it's obvious that you don't know enough of the market and I feel you talk from point of view of expat who lives in this city for couple of years maybe when I'm all the time referring to the article you linked and the needs of locals in long view.

You don't happen to be american?
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