peter.storm wrote:I apologise if this reply is a little disjointed as I have only just woken after a good night around the hostess bars!!!

yes hostess bars are definetely a step above street hookers or street girls in general, but still you're feeding their greedy owners rather than going straight to the girl.

it's like there's a barrier, a wall, between you and her, and this wall is the scam in question, the exploitation of girls that would otherwise be more than happy doing the same things in normal bars with no BS attached.

i've not a single reason to defend hostess bar owners, they're just as scum as the worst mamasans as far as i'm concerned.

point is, we just don't need them and we just don't need hostess bars.

hostess bars are the reason the normal bars have only ugly or mediocre girls, and this happens because the nice girls have options and will make more bucks in hostess bars and by domino effect the scene in the normal bars sucks big time.

but this is an artificial distortion of the supply and demand, these shitholes are in existance just because proper brothels are illegal.

it's ok for you to fuck some bargirls for free, i did it for some time in the past and with mucho gusto.

it's all good and well while you fuck but in the end these girls are not relationship material, they're rotten even as friends in many cases and sooner or later you will question yourself who the fuck are hanging out with, what the hell are hookers doing in your home all the time, i mean you cannot fully trust them and you'll become scared they bring in other girls who are into drugs or plan to rob you or whatever, it's a realistic risk and you hear horror stories all the time, good luck finding her hiding in a rice field in Kampong Cham after she has stolen your passport, money, laptop, and all.

Who wants trust or relationships?
You were talking about freelancers before and surely they are less trustworthy

peter.storm - excellent long post before and I think it reflects the feelings of many guys here.

drifter, as PSD Kiwi and others say, how exactly is it a scam? Everything is transparent as far as prices go in a hostess bar.

I think by now we have all clearly gathered that it is not your scene. Fair enough, different people enjoy different things.

Most people have 'vices', big and small. A fair number of guys from all walks of life enjoy hostess bars. They know it is a 'game' but there is enjoyment on both sides, from the girls and the guys. The guys are paying but are generally relaxed about the cost.

As far as hostess bars being a 'barrier' between you and the girl, and that they 'exploit' the girl, if that's your view, ok. And yes there are freelance bars and hangouts like GSM that you feel are more to your liking.

Personally I think the hostess bars provide a safe and (usually) caring environment for the girls to work in. As they are staff, rather than just girls hanging around, they receive paid days off and when they are sick, interest-free loans, subsidised clothing, bonuses and incentives, plus basic training in hospitality, hygiene, and work safety.

As far as I can see the only essential difference between your scenario of the girls hanging out in a 'normal' bar with no ladydrinks and them being in a hostess bar is the difference in cost between a customer drink price and a ladydrink price?

The price of customer drinks is pretty much the same in hostess and 'normal bars. In both categories there are some cheap bars and some more upmarket ones.

So it must be the ladydrinks that are the 'scam', the barrier?

If you bought a girl a rum and coke in say Touk bar it would be about $3, all proceeds going to the bar, none to the girl.

In a hostess bar it would either be $3 or $3.50 but the girl would get $1 or $1.50 respectively, with $2 going to the bar.

So in a hostess bar the owner is generally making less from girls drinks than he would in a 'normal' bar.

I think you were indicating in earlier posts that the girls could just hang out in these 'normal' bars and you wouldn't have to buy any 'bullshit' ladydrinks.

Yes this is true and some guys do this. Just sit, talk with a girl, don't buy her a drink, then suggest that they both go off together. Ok, but slightly unsociable IMHO.

I think most guys in GSM or freelance places still tend to buy the girl they are talking to and spending time with, a drink, out of politeness and because it's only a couple of dollars.

As another poster said... it's horses for courses. Some like the slightly rawer freelance scene, others prefer hostess bars. One reason I like Phnom Penh is the variety of choices available for meeting great local girls.

@Jah Steu

it's not just the lady drinks, barfine, and all.

i feel sick at the idea guys pay to talk, simple as that.
and they have to pay otherwise the bar can't make money, so as soon as i sit down i'm instantly reminded my role in this scenario is to be her talking wallet $$$.

if there was no pressure from the girls to ordering drinks it would be ok but that's not the case at all and they will also call you cheap charlie if you dare refuse drinking too much .. what the fuck .. they will also tell you rules of the house and they've bills to pay maybe thinking you're a newbie ... how sad, just in case you forget you're talking with a hooker and the bar must make a profit ...totally ruins the atmospher being pushed for drinks or anything, i'm not a big drinker and i like to drink slow, no way i'm gonna take any shit from illiterate whores who see as walking ATMs, for the record if i go at walkabout or sharky or martini i usually ask her if we eat together in case i'm hungry ... nothing fancy or expensive but i like to eat together, it's fun ... being asked right away to offer drinks is not and very unpolite, if she likes me there's never need to drink unless she's thirsty or we eat, it sounds the same but there's a big difference involved !

so yeah, not my scene, but i understand that to each his own and good luck with that if you really like hostess bars.

Drifter wrote:@Jah Steu

it's not just the lady drinks, barfine, and all.

i feel sick at the idea guys pay to talk, simple as that.
and they have to pay otherwise the bar can't make money, so as soon as i sit down i'm instantly reminded my role in this scenario is to be her talking wallet $$$.

if there was no pressure from the girls to ordering drinks it would be ok but that's not the case at all and they will also call you cheap charlie if you dare refuse drinking too much .. what the fuck .. they will also tell you rules of the house and they've bills to pay maybe thinking you're a newbie ... how sad, just in case you forget you're talking with a hooker and the bar must make a profit ...totally ruins the atmospher being pushed for drinks or anything, i'm not a big drinker and i like to drink slow, no way i'm gonna take any shit from illiterate whores who see as walking ATMs, for the record if i go at walkabout or sharky or martini i usually ask her if we eat together in case i'm hungry ... nothing fancy or expensive but i like to eat together, it's fun ... being asked right away to offer drinks is not and very unpolite, if she likes me there's never need to drink unless she's thirsty or we eat, it sounds the same but there's a big difference involved !

so yeah, not my scene, but i understand that to each his own and good luck with that if you really like hostess bars.

I can't really argue with what you say, you're basically right.

I think the difference is in the attitude of the hostess bars and the girls. In some bars the the girls are extremely pushy to the extent of nastiness and as you say it makes the customer experience very bad. And the owners don't seem to care.

In the better bars the girls are less pushy and generally give the customer a much more enjoyable time for his money.

Like you I hate really pushy girls, so in my bar they aren't allowed to ask for ladydrinks and we fine them if they do. A few other bars are the same.

I also like the freelance scene and as you point out, it's very different and the girls behave differently. Partly because there's no money for them in asking for drinks, they are purely aiming to tempt you to take them home.

Hostess girls on the other hand can often make enough money from ladydrinks so they aren't that focussed on getting a customer to take them out.

404 Not Known

jah steu wrote:Like you I hate really pushy girls, so in my bar they aren't allowed to ask for ladydrinks and we fine them if they do. A few other bars are the same.

I also like the freelance scene and as you point out, it's very different and the girls behave differently. Partly because there's no money for them in asking for drinks, they are purely aiming to tempt you to take them home.

Hostess girls on the other hand can often make enough money from ladydrinks so they aren't that focussed on getting a customer to take them out.

because freelancers are just smarter, they work less and they make good money, they've just a higher ROI.

they don't wait 8 hrs for a sucker to knock at their door in a bar, they go straight to their target, set the deal, go in his room, fuck, and go home with the money in their purse, deal done and they keep 100% of the money ... nothing to share with bar owners or mamasans.

the only reason bargirls stick to bars is because they're fucking lazy and they're just not cut to be good freelancers.

taranis wrote:

I think most guys in GSM or freelance places still tend to buy the girl they are talking to and spending time with, a drink, out of politeness and because it's only a couple of dollars.

You can sit in the Golden Sorya Mall and share your beer jug with a freelance girl or two, also end up buying her some food or giving her a dollar. Why? For company? Same same as a hostess bar.

it's different.

- at Sorya the drinks will be real drinks, not watered down coca cola, and it's just 2$ for a bucket of beer

- the girls sit down with you for fun and profit and many times they've just nothing better to do so they're not pushy and if you really like them they're more than happy if you give them a tip, no need to proceed further with her but in case you want you know that 100% of the girls are available for sex unlike with bargirls.

- food is cheap and so are the drinks and the girls, yes the whole place is too noisy and crowded compared to a nice bar but it's a good alternative.