Freightdog's very own translation thread...

Post by **Freightdog** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:41 pm

Perhaps consulting a woman regarding tonality and intonation might help to clarify-
For instance
When she says 'yes, of course' and the hairs on the back of your neck scream 'danger!'

Post by **Jamie_Lambo** » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:33 am

Freightdog wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:41 pm Perhaps consulting a woman regarding tonality and intonation might help to clarify-
For instance
When she says 'yes, of course' and the hairs on the back of your neck scream 'danger!'

Kammekor · Post by **Kammekor** » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:44 am

StroppyChops wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:21 pm
taabarang wrote: ↑Thu May 31, 2018 1:25 pm Without going into detail some language learners here are confusing tonality and intonation.
You're aware that there's a grey area in between the two, right?

Pitch-accent is a third factor along with tone and intonation, and the three factors are not as distinct as you might think.

Stroppy, you're clutching at straws here. Taabarang hit the nail pretty well.
Tonality and intonation / pitch accent are very different concepts. By changing the the tonality of a syllable (and thus changing the whole meaning of the word) a word becomes 'tonal', that's not the case in Khmer. You have to change a vowel, or one ore more consonants to get a different meaning.

The fact these two similar words have a different meaning:

Bong!
Bong?

Has nothing to do with tonality. It has all to with intonation like Taabarang stated.

You claim to be a good listener, but in Cambodia that often is not enough. Cambodians are very sloppy with their pronunciation and whenever possible they will take a shortcut or use slang (they love using slang, esp. the guys), or twist up words just for the sake of being able to do so. If you would rely on the the words learned on the street your would be convinced 'peam' is actually the word for number five, 'choy may' is a common expression, and a pineapple costs 1005 riels instead of 1.500 riels.

I am close to illiterate in Khmer, but when I studied Khmer I studied with a teacher, constantly stressing to get the sounds of the vowels and the consonants right - not having them right changes the meaning, like ambul - ampool - etc etc. In order to speak Khmer clearly you have to get all right, like in English. Changing one vowel has large consequences in English too if you're illiterate:

big
back
bag

I have that problem (back-bag) with the Khmer word 'Khaeo' It's more or less the same for 'glue' (Kao?), pants (Khao?) and glass (Kheo?). Add a twist of slang and every time I hear one of these I have to deduct the meaning from the context. And every time I want to buy glue the seller looks at me with those amazed looks wondering why I did not understand they really don't sell chairs and glasses.

Anyway, learning a new language simple takes quite some effort if you want to take it beyond 'How much?', 'Love you long time' and 'Where you come from'.

Post by **Jamie_Lambo** » Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:52 pm

Kammekor wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:44 am
StroppyChops wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:21 pm
taabarang wrote: ↑Thu May 31, 2018 1:25 pm Without going into detail some language learners here are confusing tonality and intonation.
You're aware that there's a grey area in between the two, right?

Pitch-accent is a third factor along with tone and intonation, and the three factors are not as distinct as you might think.
Stroppy, you're clutching at straws here. Taabarang hit the nail pretty well.
Tonality and intonation / pitch accent are very different concepts. By changing the the tonality of a syllable (and thus changing the whole meaning of the word) a word becomes 'tonal', that's not the case in Khmer. You have to change a vowel, or one ore more consonants to get a different meaning.

The fact these two similar words have a different meaning:

Bong!
Bong?

Has nothing to do with tonality. It has all to with intonation like Taabarang stated.

You claim to be a good listener, but in Cambodia that often is not enough. Cambodians are very sloppy with their pronunciation and whenever possible they will take a shortcut or use slang (they love using slang, esp. the guys), or twist up words just for the sake of being able to do so. If you would rely on the the words learned on the street your would be convinced 'peam' is actually the word for number five, 'choy may' is a common expression, and a pineapple costs 1005 riels instead of 1.500 riels.

I am close to illiterate in Khmer, but when I studied Khmer I studied with a teacher, constantly stressing to get the sounds of the vowels and the consonants right - not having them right changes the meaning, like ambul - ampool - etc etc. In order to speak Khmer clearly you have to get all right, like in English. Changing one vowel has large consequences in English too if you're illiterate:

big
back
bag

I have that problem (back-bag) with the Khmer word 'Khaeo' It's more or less the same for 'glue' (Kao?), pants (Khao?) and glass (Kheo?). Add a twist of slang and every time I hear one of these I have to deduct the meaning from the context. And every time I want to buy glue the seller looks at me with those amazed looks wondering why I did not understand they really don't sell chairs and glasses.

Anyway, learning a new language simple takes quite some effort if you want to take it beyond 'How much?', 'Love you long time' and 'Where you come from'.

very good post mate!

StroppyChops · Post by **StroppyChops** » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:51 pm

Kammekor wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:44 am
StroppyChops wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:21 pm
taabarang wrote: ↑Thu May 31, 2018 1:25 pm Without going into detail some language learners here are confusing tonality and intonation.
You're aware that there's a grey area in between the two, right?

Pitch-accent is a third factor along with tone and intonation, and the three factors are not as distinct as you might think.
Stroppy, you're clutching at straws here.

Yeah, possibly.

taabarang · Post by **taabarang** » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:24 pm

First, a big thanks to Jamie for showing the etymological debts that his regional dialect(s) owe(s) to local history which still persevere in daily speech in Northern England. Thanks also to Kammekor for an interesting insight to "slippery vowel movements.". I can relate quite well with that struggle. And finally thanks to Stroppy for being a sour note in the musical spheres. Contributors like him propel others to critical analysis. It is heartening to know that I am in the good company of serious students of Khmer and the problems we face.

While Jamie predominantly focused on the historical roots of his local language he also briefly alluded to truncated speech. Well, we Americans are no slouch at that either. Here's an example from the Midwest. Ready?

" Jeet jet?" Which is our way of enquiring "Did you eat yet?"
It is certainly nothing unique to either English or Cambodian. As far as I know it exists in all languages, perhaps even Esperanto. Here is an example From French dialects which are spoken in parts of Quebec, rural Louisiana, I.e. Cajuns and throughout southern Belgium. It sounds like
"Asteur" which is the spoken form of "a cette heure" meaning "now" and largely replaces the more common and accepted "maintenant.". I have many other examples from other languages, but in the interest of brevity, it is clear that truncated speech plays a huge role in the formation of dialects.

So thanks guys and carry on.

Post by **Username Taken** » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:31 pm

g'day mate, azitgarn?

taabarang · Post by **taabarang** » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:43 pm

Username Taken wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:31 pm g'day mate, azitgarn?

Even Steven and cheese and crackers got all muddy knows I need the jing

Post by **Freightdog** » Sat May 11, 2019 10:25 pm

With junior’s arrival last month, so too arrives a whole load more ideas and considerations which I’ve not really thought of previously.

SWMBO has been asking me about something that sounds like- Boh Kah kaun. (Video link, 6000miles and UK Internet)
From my limited understanding of Khmer, Kaun means child or kid.

Seems like a social event for when the baby is about a month old, and we get a bunch of folk around. For those with children born within Cambodian culture, would you help enlighten me?

Correct pronunciation if there’s any to be had, some background on what it is about. If it’s simply barbecue some unfortunate chickens and drink beer, I can probably manage that in an hour or two. Anything more might require some thought.

Post by **Freightdog** » Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:07 am

Well, I’m still at it. Trying to learn Khmer, that is. Obviously a slow process as I clearly spend too much time trolling.

Old v New.
The old technique of reading signs as I venture around town grinds to a halt when I get to some old script, of which there’s quite a lot. So beyond the heavy flourish of the script itself, replacing with a few different characters is just devious.

ង having a completely different character, along with ទ ឡ in the older script.

For those well in the know; What about the vowels?

Freightdog's very own translation thread...

Re: Freightdog's very own translation thread...

Re: Freightdog's very own translation thread...

Re: Freightdog's very own translation thread...

Re: Freightdog's very own translation thread...

Re: Freightdog's very own translation thread...

Re: Freightdog's very own translation thread...

Re: Freightdog's very own translation thread...

Re: Freightdog's very own translation thread...

bo’ Kah kaun.

Old Khmer script vs New

Who is online

Register/Login to CEO with your Social Media Account: