Classic Fights with your Khmer Partner

GMJS-CEO · Post by **GMJS-CEO** » Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:41 am

Tarndog wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:12 am Coming from someone who shares your viewpoint that there is no truth uglier than a lie, I would tell you to not lose faith in your approach, and never cede to your Khmer wife/girlfriend, unless of course you find you honestly made a mistake. They have brains about the size of a BB, and an education and wisdom to match.

Surprised your post is being well-received given the introduction. While access to education is certainly an issue for many in the country, I personally don't think "they have brains the size of a BB" matched with no wisdom is a fair way to characterize Cambodian women.

Your classification of "they" is more an indication of your own faults, and those faults are likely a significant factor in the failing of your relationships. It seems you realize this as you rightly question your ability to have a lifetime partner. When relationships keep failing and follow the same pattern, it is not them but rather you that is the cause.

Cam Nivag · Post by **Cam Nivag** » Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:19 am

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:03 pm I dunno. To me it's weird that you'd contact him without even knowing the guy.

Yeah, contacting the guy without know him just to say "I'm shtupping your girlfriend's sister, let me know if you need any advice" is weird.

And then he talks to the guy after the breakup and immediately reports back to his own girlfriend "Guess what terrible things this guy is saying about your sister."

I'd expect that sort of stuff from a 16 year old.

RickyBobby · Post by **RickyBobby** » Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:08 am

Cam Nivag wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:19 am
Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:03 pm I dunno. To me it's weird that you'd contact him without even knowing the guy.
Yeah, contacting the guy without know him just to say "I'm shtupping your girlfriend's sister, let me know if you need any advice" is weird.

And then he talks to the guy after the breakup and immediately reports back to his own girlfriend "Guess what terrible things this guy is saying about your sister."

I'd expect that sort of stuff from a 16 year old.

You post doesn't dignify a response; idiot.

Post by **Clutch Cargo** » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:23 am

DaveG wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:55 pm
clutchcargo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:28 pm
Post by Sidewalker » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:54 am

Time for a agony aunt on this site?

by DaveG » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:07 am

Call me a cynical old bastard but when I see a 60 year old male with a lady half his age holding hands and skipping in to the sunset I do wonder if he thinks he's in love while all the time she's thinking of ways to fleece his bank account out of as much as possible to feed the extended family, I may be wrong and they may both be ecstatically in love with each other.

OP had the guts to share some of his personal issues with his khmer partner and all you guys can do is make some glib, cheap shots intended to make fun of and belittle the OP's situation?

How would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot? You, sirs, are borderline trolls trying to derail/hijack an honest and relevant topic of barang/khmer relationships which many expat members here would relate to. By doing so, you are not respecting the OP and generally doing a disservice to this forum imo.

Unhappy MGTOW:

We get that you are a man going your own way
We get that you want to make a statement about that to members via your moniker
We get that that means you've given up/turned your back on traditional relationships
We get that hence this thread is superfluous to you
We get that you somehow think therefore this topic is a good target for derision

How about showing some respect for other people's views and stop making these sorts of one line posts to get your view of life across. If you don't like the topic ignore it...or, how about you start a thread on the MGTOW movement and then you can argue your case so we can all discuss it and give our views?

DaveG:

OK, so the OP volunteered that he is 29 yrs senior than his Mrs... So you have to bring out that classic old chestnut.....ah, old guy with very young girl stereotype.. That's really off topic and not the issue that OP wants to discuss here. Do you live in Asia? Coz it sounds like you have the classic 'I've got my western hat on' and trying to impose your westerns ideals here.. Oh, she's only with him for his money... Give us a break! If you wonder, as you say, whether they are together for money or love, then go start another thread to explore the issue of old guys with young girls so that we can all discuss in context there without derailing the issue here?

As I said, cheap shots imo..
Read the post and chill out,

" I may be wrong and they may both be ecstatically in love with each other",

And," Call me a cynical old bastard but"

How's Miss Clutch. ????, she wouldn't be younger than you would she by any chance, You take things far to personally. Chill man, you gonna give yourself a heart attack

Haha Funny isn't it that you had to include 2 caveats wrapped around your point?

I see a 60 year old male with a lady half his age holding hands and skipping in to the sunset I do wonder if he thinks he's in love while all the time she's thinking of ways to fleece his bank account out of as much as possible to feed the extended family,

Getting your derogatory point across yet giving yourself an escape route with 2 heavy qualifications should anyone pick you up on it... Very constructive..pretty sure members can see the nuance here.

Post by **Clutch Cargo** » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:53 pm

RickyBobby wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:20 am
I would like to ask you; do you and your partner fight much? What are some of the doozies that left you shaking your head?

Nope, Mrs Cargo is very averse to any argument or raising voices. She sorta nips it in the bud. Now, you'd think she'd simmer on these unresolved issues...but no, she just hates conflict and just lets it go. One of the reasons I'm probably still with her.

One issue that keeps popping up every now and then without any resolution though is where because she's the only sister without kids, she feels obliged to sometimes help the others out with a bit of money. Now, Mrs Cargo is not money focused and otherwise could do far better than me if she was (and I might add not because I'm hard up for money but I didn't want a relationship where money was the main driver)...indeed, she could stay at home and live a life of leisure but rather, she prefers to go out and work (albeit for pretty low khmer money). So when I see how hard she works and how responsible and selfless she is, I get a bit irritated about that. Rather, I would like to encourage her to save for her future.

So, when this happens she just says 'you barang, you think different, you don't understand khmer'. Actually, I do understand more than she knows it but it is the classic clash of cultures that so many face here. Family obligations and tradition.

DaveG · Post by **DaveG** » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:18 pm

Clutch, don't get your thong on a twist, if you are both happy with the arrangement then that's good, I'm not saying there is anything wrong in it, in fact these sorts of situations aren't unique to Cambodia, in Turkey the men hit on the fat barang tourist women as a possible way out of their situations, so as you see it applies both ways.

Good luck to any Barang that finds what they are looking for over here, it's just a journey and the end is always the same for all of us.

Take care,
Dave G

tightenupvolume1 · Post by **tightenupvolume1** » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:00 pm

there are no winners in a fight

Charlie

StroppyChops · Post by **StroppyChops** » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:22 pm

RickyBobby wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:20 am Its inevitable...

Congrats for sharing your pain, that takes guts. Mrs Stroppy and I are both divorcees, and we got marriage counseling at the start of our relationship because we were both carrying baggage and we knew it. Best investment we ever made. I've done some marriage counseling here, similar situations to yours, and the basics are not any different to couples in other countries. Here's some unsolicited advice for nothing.

Basically any couple who wants to last has to BOTH commit to learning how to fight fair, BEFORE fighting.

Nothing wrong with clearing the air but there needs to be agreed rules in the ring, and if either partner breaks them, the other walks away from the fight until the rule-breaker apologises, at which point the "discussion" can continue. Sounds harsh, especially given some of the stereotypes of younger Khmer wives, but quite simply if both partners can't agree to this as a foundation, you're screwed anyway. It's possible and productive to argue in a healthy way. Abuse yelled in the heat of the moment doesn't automatically get forgiven and forgotten, it does lasting damage, and needs to be owned.

None of the following is aimed at you personally, it's general-purpose.

Fight rules are pretty simple.

- agree that your relationship is worth fighting for, even if you're fighting each other for it. This is a good litmus test as to whether it's actually worth it. Clearly you're not going to take a break at the start of a fight to confirm this - you should already know it, and know the other person's view.
- are you fighting for you to win and the other person to lose, or are you fighting for your relationship? AKA do you want to be right and alone, or do you want to make it work? Equally, if you're the one that always compromises, that's dysfunctional. This is a big point in barang-Khmer marriages/relationships - the expectation that this is Cambodia, so we do everything the Cambodian way is bullshit. We all know the stereotype that wife number 1 is for family, wife number 2 is for fun - does the Khmer partner really want everything the Cambodian way? Your relationship is not Cambodian - it's Cambodian/Western (whatever flavour you happen to be) and in equal proportions. Sure, you may have taken on the extended family when you got into the relationship, but does she know/care how you feel about that, and what impact it has on you?
- know the difference between issues and topics, and fight on the issues, not the topics. Example - she goes off her absolute tit because she thought you were too nice to the serving girl in the restaurant. What's the issue, and what's the topic here?
- try and be clear on what the issue is, and don't let either partner pull the fight away from the issue. "Hyperlinking" is a millennial trait, where a young person bounces the issue at debate like a basketball and you try and keep up - don't allow it to happen. Example - "You want her more than me." "No I don't, I..." "You don't give me things" "Hang on, we were talking about..." "My grandmother is sick and you have to..." "Wait, what?..." "You think I'm fat." it's an arguing strategy designed to keep you off balance and not be able to respond. It's disrespectful, and younger people are better at it than older people.
- fight fair. If one person thinks they're losing and starts throwing everything into the ring (and dragging up old stuff) it's deflecting from the issue that started it. When either one raises an issue, stay on that issue until it's been addressed - don't let one person control the fight by constantly heaping in shit to shut the other one down.
- don't attack your partner and tear them down. Don't do it. Focus on the issue. Neither of you is going to strengthen your relationship by deliberately weakening the other. Address the behaviours or events that started the fight, don't seek to get revenge. If you need revenge, leave. It's finished.
- if you're fighting, make sure it's just the two of you. Don't allow family members or friends get involved either in the fight, or in the background. Particularly, neither partner should walk away from the argument to discuss it with others who reload the gun so the partner can come back and keep firing. If this is the pattern of fights, end the pattern, and if you can't, end the relationship.
- the first time either of you is physically hurt by the other, you're a victim. If it happens a second time, you're a volunteer. If you feel the other person might have been about to hurt you (machete example) this needs to be addressed separately at a calmer time, and needs to be a deal-breaker (see below).

This is predicated on you having set some agreed relationship rules though. A lot of people won't agree with these - don't care. They work. Relationships that are struggling don't follow these rules.

- neither of you is a fkn mind reader. If you want something from the other person, say so. Don't assume you know what the other person is thinking, or they you, because you're almost certainly wrong.
- it's not your job to work out what makes them happy and then give it to them, nor vice versa. They're responsible for their state of mind, as are you. See the previous rule. If either partner is being rude and moody because the other partner hasn't guessed what they want yet, see the previous rule, and grow up.
- be where you say you're going to be, at the times you say you'll be there, with the people you say you're going to be with (and not others), doing what you say you're going to be doing, be contactable, and give the other person permission to check up on you. And this goes both ways. If you want secret time, don't be in a relationship.
- have defined deal-breakers, and discuss them before fights even happen. As open as "If you do this, this or this, I'm out." Shows you've got some dignity and self respect, and the other party can't use you as a doormat. Think this through though, because you should be prepared to stick to it.
- agree on your finances, ahead of time, possibly in writing so it can't later be argued. Sure, you probably have a lot more, but is it your intent that the other person and their family spend it indiscriminately for you? If not, have you made that clear? Because that's almost certainly the expectation, and you'll be viewed poorly if you don't handle the situation.
- if there are kids or young adults around, keep in mind that you're modeling how adults argue. Show them how to do it right.

This is just free-expression and doesn't look like this in a more formal setting, just throwing down thoughts as they occur.

Incidentally, some of the other comments made in this thread are exactly why a lot of Khmer/barang relationships don't work out. Especially comments like "there's plenty more of them." WTF? If anyone goes into or out of a relationship with that attitude, it says a lot more about them than the other person.

Anyhoo...

Edit: forgot to include the obvious, and this is REALLY difficult in this culture. When fighting, you take turns speaking and the other one listens. You don't interrupt or disagree with the other one until it's your turn to speak, you are silent, and listening. You are not just waiting for your turn to talk, you are actively listening. I'll use a stereotype but I don't think many will criticise me for it - Khmer women tend to throw up a barrage of noise if they don't want to listen. If they can't turn this off, you can't fix the situation. This is probably the most important point in fighting fair, and I should have put it at the top of the list.

And lastly, all the above is for BOTH people in the relationship, not just the Westerner. If you can't agree to it, good luck ... because you're going to need it.

xandreu · Post by **xandreu** » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:23 pm

I've had many a classic bust-up with my partner over the years. It's difficult to pick one that stands out from the others. I'm usually a very placid guy and it takes a lot to get me riled. I very rarely show anger, preferring to play it cool when dealing with difficult situations. Revenge is so much sweeter if you give yourself the time to plot.

I've been with my Khmer partner for a few years now, and I've slowly learned, through bitter experience, that there are some aspects of Khmer behavior you simply have to ignore. Before I met my current partner, I'd had several Khmer partners, and in my experience, if you want a serious, long-term relationship with a Khmer, there are some things that you just have to learn to overlook. You have to accept and live with 'certain things'. If you aren't willing to accept them, you'll never be happy with a Khmer partner and you may as well pack up now and go home.

You have to bear in mind that you're living in a culture that has evolved in an entirely different way to the culture you're used to back home. Obviously, there are values that all humans share (or should share) on account of simply being human, but there are other values that are culturally dependent, and they may not agree with, or be as significant as, the values you're used to. Which leads you to a difficult question - Do they have to conform to your values or you to theirs? Well, you're in their country, experiencing their culture, not the other way around...

Plus - and I'm very aware of the fact I'm about to sound like a feeble, under-the-thumb apologist for my next point, but I think there's some truth to it - you also have to bear in mind the inevitable unequalness (spellchecker tells me that's not an actual word but I can't think of any alternative) of a typical relationship between a white, foreign, English speaking person and a native Khmer. It's often all too easy to take the "I'm the one who earns most of the money, I'm the one who pays the bills therefore I'm the one who calls the shots" attitude. I'm guilty of it myself, on many occasions, either directly or indirectly, but this attitude really isn't a good basis for a healthy long term relationship with a Khmer. This is partly what I mean by basic human values - you wouldn't like to be in a relationship with someone who took that attitude, what makes you think they do?

I've forgiven my partner for a lot more than I'd ever forgive a western partner for. A hell of a lot more. But I'm fully aware that the line has to be pushed back significantly to allow for cultural differences, if I'm ever to find happiness here.

Compromise, understanding and cultural awareness go a long way out here if you want to maintain a long-term relationship and firmly put down some roots.

RickyBobby · Post by **RickyBobby** » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:48 pm

StroppyChops wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:22 pm
RickyBobby wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:20 am Its inevitable...
Congrats for sharing your pain, that takes guts. Mrs Stroppy and I are both divorcees, and we got marriage counseling at the start of our relationship because we were both carrying baggage and we knew it. Best investment we ever made. I've done some marriage counseling here, similar situations to yours, and the basics are not any different to couples in other countries. Here's some unsolicited advice for nothing.

Basically any couple who wants to last has to BOTH commit to learning how to fight fair, BEFORE fighting.

Nothing wrong with clearing the air but there needs to be agreed rules in the ring, and if either partner breaks them, the other walks away from the fight until the rule-breaker apologises, at which point the "discussion" can continue. Sounds harsh, especially given some of the stereotypes of younger Khmer wives, but quite simply if both partners can't agree to this as a foundation, you're screwed anyway. It's possible and productive to argue in a healthy way. Abuse yelled in the heat of the moment doesn't automatically get forgiven and forgotten, it does lasting damage, and needs to be owned.

None of the following is aimed at you personally, it's general-purpose.

Fight rules are pretty simple.

- agree that your relationship is worth fighting for, even if you're fighting each other for it. This is a good litmus test as to whether it's actually worth it. Clearly you're not going to take a break at the start of a fight to confirm this - you should already know it, and know the other person's view.
- are you fighting for you to win and the other person to lose, or are you fighting for your relationship? AKA do you want to be right and alone, or do you want to make it work? Equally, if you're the one that always compromises, that's dysfunctional. This is a big point in barang-Khmer marriages/relationships - the expectation that this is Cambodia, so we do everything the Cambodian way is bullshit. We all know the stereotype that wife number 1 is for family, wife number 2 is for fun - does the Khmer partner really want everything the Cambodian way? Your relationship is not Cambodian - it's Cambodian/Western (whatever flavour you happen to be) and in equal proportions. Sure, you may have taken on the extended family when you got into the relationship, but does she know/care how you feel about that, and what impact it has on you?
- know the difference between issues and topics, and fight on the issues, not the topics. Example - she goes off her absolute tit because she thought you were too nice to the serving girl in the restaurant. What's the issue, and what's the topic here?
- try and be clear on what the issue is, and don't let either partner pull the fight away from the issue. "Hyperlinking" is a millennial trait, where a young person bounces the issue at debate like a basketball and you try and keep up - don't allow it to happen. Example - "You want her more than me." "No I don't, I..." "You don't give me things" "Hang on, we were talking about..." "My grandmother is sick and you have to..." "Wait, what?..." "You think I'm fat." it's an arguing strategy designed to keep you off balance and not be able to respond. It's disrespectful, and younger people are better at it than older people.
- fight fair. If one person thinks they're losing and starts throwing everything into the ring (and dragging up old stuff) it's deflecting from the issue that started it. When either one raises an issue, stay on that issue until it's been addressed - don't let one person control the fight by constantly heaping in shit to shut the other one down.
- don't attack your partner and tear them down. Don't do it. Focus on the issue. Neither of you is going to strengthen your relationship by deliberately weakening the other. Address the behaviours or events that started the fight, don't seek to get revenge. If you need revenge, leave. It's finished.
- if you're fighting, make sure it's just the two of you. Don't allow family members or friends get involved either in the fight, or in the background. Particularly, neither partner should walk away from the argument to discuss it with others who reload the gun so the partner can come back and keep firing. If this is the pattern of fights, end the pattern, and if you can't, end the relationship.
- the first time either of you is physically hurt by the other, you're a victim. If it happens a second time, you're a volunteer. If you feel the other person might have been about to hurt you (machete example) this needs to be addressed separately at a calmer time, and needs to be a deal-breaker (see below).

This is predicated on you having set some agreed relationship rules though. A lot of people won't agree with these - don't care. They work. Relationships that are struggling don't follow these rules.

- neither of you is a fkn mind reader. If you want something from the other person, say so. Don't assume you know what the other person is thinking, or they you, because you're almost certainly wrong.
- it's not your job to work out what makes them happy and then give it to them, nor vice versa. They're responsible for their state of mind, as are you. See the previous rule. If either partner is being rude and moody because the other partner hasn't guessed what they want yet, see the previous rule, and grow up.
- be where you say you're going to be, at the times you say you'll be there, with the people you say you're going to be with (and not others), doing what you say you're going to be doing, be contactable, and give the other person permission to check up on you. And this goes both ways. If you want secret time, don't be in a relationship.
- have defined deal-breakers, and discuss them before fights even happen. As open as "If you do this, this or this, I'm out." Shows you've got some dignity and self respect, and the other party can't use you as a doormat. Think this through though, because you should be prepared to stick to it.
- agree on your finances, ahead of time, possibly in writing so it can't later be argued. Sure, you probably have a lot more, but is it your intent that the other person and their family spend it indiscriminately for you? If not, have you made that clear? Because that's almost certainly the expectation, and you'll be viewed poorly if you don't handle the situation.
- if there are kids or young adults around, keep in mind that you're modeling how adults argue. Show them how to do it right.

This is just free-expression and doesn't look like this in a more formal setting, just throwing down thoughts as they occur.

Incidentally, some of the other comments made in this thread are exactly why a lot of Khmer/barang relationships don't work out. Especially comments like "there's plenty more of them." WTF? If anyone goes into or out of a relationship with that attitude, it says a lot more about them than the other person.

Anyhoo...

Edit: forgot to include the obvious, and this is REALLY difficult in this culture. When fighting, you take turns speaking and the other one listens. You don't interrupt or disagree with the other one until it's your turn to speak, you are silent, and listening. You are not just waiting for your turn to talk, you are actively listening. I'll use a stereotype but I don't think many will criticise me for it - Khmer women tend to throw up a barrage of noise if they don't want to listen. If they can't turn this off, you can't fix the situation. This is probably the most important point in fighting fair, and I should have put it at the top of the list.

And lastly, all the above is for BOTH people in the relationship, not just the Westerner. If you can't agree to it, good luck ... because you're going to need it.

Hella Respect bro. A LOT of wisdom here and I agree. This should actually be made into an article. Where the hell is your blog?

Classic Fights with your Khmer Partner

Re: Classic Fights with your Khmer Partner

Re: Classic Fights with your Khmer Partner

Re: Classic Fights with your Khmer Partner

Re: Classic Fights with your Khmer Partner

Re: Classic Fights with your Khmer Partner

Re: Classic Fights with your Khmer Partner

Re: Classic Fights with your Khmer Partner

Re: Classic Fights with your Khmer Partner

Re: Classic Fights with your Khmer Partner

Re: Classic Fights with your Khmer Partner

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