John Bingham wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:55 pm

Queef wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:52 am Never understood why some expats decide to put on blinders when it comes down to Cambodia. It's ok to like the place. It's also ok to admit that it's a shit hole

People just get used to a place and things that used to seem messed-up don't seem so remarkable any more.
Many of the more recent visitors probably don't realize that it was far worse not so long ago. They think it should be just like Australia.
I don't see what the issue is with personal safety, I've lived in far rougher places outside SEA so I don't get it.
I never understand why some foreigners come here and complain all the time either, but they are easily avoided.

I hear you. I'm slowly but surely getting used to the way things are here (which is a good and a bad thing). Toddlers riding motorcycles without helmets don't phase me anymore. If they die, they die. Not my problem.
Getting used to the way things are doesn't mean that I'm ok with it and should behave like the local population (or the indoctrinated expats). There is a huge difference between getting used to the overall madness and refusing to admit that the place is far from being perfect.

Came here with my best friend in 2017. Dude used up all his vacation days just to visit Cambodia (he's from the UK). Was he complaining all the time? Yes. Why? He was lied to. Cambodia is not 7th heaven. It's a shit hole (not by Trump's definition), but Google says otherwise. Maybe it was way worse not so long ago, but it hasn't really improved (or maybe it did change, just not for the better).

Never understood why some foreigners are so adamant when it comes down to admitting that Cambodia is trash (especially compared to its neighbors). Like you said, they are easily avoided!

Queef wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:15 am Maybe it was way worse not so long ago, but it hasn't really improved (or maybe it did change, just not for the better).

I'm not sure what you're trying to say there.

John Bingham wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:38 am

Queef wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:15 am Maybe it was way worse not so long ago, but it hasn't really improved (or maybe it did change, just not for the better).

I'm not sure what you're trying to say there.

That's what happen when I have no caffeine in my system.

You said that Cambodia was worse not so long ago, and newcomers should keep that in mind before they start bitching.
Maybe Cambodia did improve, but how can newcomers know that? They can only base their judgement on what they see now (and it's not always pretty). You also have to take the culture shock into account. Most westerners can just buy whatever they need/ want using their smart TVs/ phones in their home countries. They can always find a new source of entertainment. There's always something new. Cambodia is 40 years behind at best. The most simple things become a huge ordeal here (like finding a competent doctor that's not a convicted pedo). The accumulation of daily little annoyances doesn't help keeping a positive outlook on the country. Not becoming an angry asshole can be challenging at times.

I wouldn't want Cambodia to resemble the US/ Straya/ UK/ [insert developed country here]. It will never happen anyways. I moved here because I was tired of the western daily grind. I wish I could live the life I live here, but in the west.
It would've been nice if Phnom Penh was more like bkk or Hanoi though. More civilized. Not a capital with an underdeveloped village feel

Queef wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:33 am

John Bingham wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:38 am

Queef wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:15 am Maybe it was way worse not so long ago, but it hasn't really improved (or maybe it did change, just not for the better).

I'm not sure what you're trying to say there.

That's what happen when I have no caffeine in my system.

You said that Cambodia was worse not so long ago, and newcomers should keep that in mind before they start bitching.
Maybe Cambodia did improve, but how can newcomers know that? They can only base their judgement on what they see now (and it's not always pretty). You also have to take the culture shock into account. Most westerners can just buy whatever they need/ want using their smart TVs/ phones in their home countries. They can always find a new source of entertainment. There's always something new. Cambodia is 40 years behind at best. The most simple things become a huge ordeal here (like finding a competent doctor that's not a convicted pedo). The accumulation of daily little annoyances doesn't help keeping a positive outlook on the country. Not becoming an angry asshole can be challenging at times.

I wouldn't want Cambodia to resemble the US/ Straya/ UK/ [insert developed country here]. It will never happen anyways. I moved here because I was tired of the western daily grind. I wish I could live the life I live here, but in the west.
It would've been nice if Phnom Penh was more like bkk or Hanoi though. More civilized. Not a capital with an underdeveloped village feel

I only came to KoW for cheap rent and cheap beer.

Tarndog wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:35 pm Never understood why some expats decide to put on blinders when it comes down to Cambodia. It's ok to like the place. It's also ok to admit that it's a shit hole

Couldn't agree more. Well said, and necessary.
[/quote]

I've been here 22 years, i've also lived/worked in Southern Thailand and Southern Africa, mainly in the area of health service delivery/development, and so I am well aware of what it is like to live and work in poorly developed countries/areas. I like Phnom Penh, otherwise I wouldn't be here. Admittedly there are areas in Phnom Penh that are "sub optimal" like the "building" area, for example but that is not the whole of Phnom Penh. Just because there are poor areas in the city (as there are in many cities) does not in my opinion justify stating that the whole place is a "shit hole". I would argue that a place designated as a "shit hole" would not have such good facilities available, as does Phnom Penh.

The city has a lot of good property for rent and sale. Many of the apartments have good locations, in Chroy Changvar for example. Pretty much everything is available in the city. There are reasonable malls, good deli's where one can get good imported cheese , pâté and a very good selection of wine. Evenings, there are many very good restaurants to visit with very nice venues. There are also some excellent health care facilities now. I know because I work in this area. I am also aware there are still some that are not so good, but things have improved tremendously over the last twenty years or so. Now one can have a very good lifestyle here at a reasonable price.

Kuroneko wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:22 pm

Tarndog wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:35 pm Never understood why some expats decide to put on blinders when it comes down to Cambodia. It's ok to like the place. It's also ok to admit that it's a shit hole

Couldn't agree more. Well said, and necessary.

I've been here 22 years, i've also lived/worked in Southern Thailand and Southern Africa, mainly in the area of health service delivery/development, and so I am well aware of what it is like to live and work in poorly developed countries/areas. I like Phnom Penh, otherwise I wouldn't be here. Admittedly there are areas in Phnom Penh that are "sub optimal" like the "building" area, for example but that is not the whole of Phnom Penh. Just because there are poor areas in the city (as there are in many cities) does not in my opinion justify stating that the whole place is a "shit hole". I would argue that a place designated as a "shit hole" would not have such good facilities available, as does Phnom Penh.

The city has a lot of good property for rent and sale. Many of the apartments have good locations, in Chroy Changvar for example. Pretty much everything is available in the city. There are reasonable malls, good deli's where one can get good imported cheese , pâté and a very good selection of wine. Evenings, there are many very good restaurants to visit with very nice venues. There are also some excellent health care facilities now. I know because I work in this area. I am also aware there are still some that are not so good, but things have improved tremendously over the last twenty years or so. Now one can have a very good lifestyle here at a reasonable price.
[/quote]

It's all about perception. 22 years though. Kudos to you. Don't see myself doing more than 5. I'm missing out on too many good things as it is.

Let me give you an example: when people from the bay area say that LA is a shitty town with terrible traffic and populated by slow witted folks, I don't feel the need to defend LA. I know what LA is really about. No need to remind them that homeless people in SF are taking mean shits on the sidewalks!

When people have the need to justify why they're in PP, it reinforces the idea that PP (and Cambodia as whole) is in fact a dump (in comparison to developed countries and/ or Thailand and Vietnam).

I agree with a lot of your points though. Don't get me wrong

Kuroneko wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:22 pm Admittedly there are areas in Phnom Penh that are "sub optimal" like the "building" area, for example but that is not the whole of Phnom Penh.

Which area? The "White Building" was demolished in 2017.

John Bingham wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:40 pm

Kuroneko wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:22 pm Admittedly there are areas in Phnom Penh that are "sub optimal" like the "building" area, for example but that is not the whole of Phnom Penh.

Which area? The "White Building" was demolished in 2017.

Yes that one, that's why I said building area