Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

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John Bingham
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by John Bingham » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:30 pm

So the knock-on effect will be less flights because of the thousands of these planes grounded, and an increase in ticket prices?
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by newkidontheblock » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:03 pm

John Bingham wrote:So the knock-on effect will be less flights because of the thousands of these planes grounded, and an increase in ticket prices?
Over the short term, probably. Over the long term, hopefully this breeds competition and innovation. Hopefully more viable choices - not just Airbus or Boeing and safer planes.
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by kaputt » Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:54 am

Airlines had to pay extra in order to get a safe plane !

Again, this is more of an accountant problem than a technical one. The features to make the 737 max plane safe were on the menu but not compulsory and thereby risking the life's of almost 400 people that died in 2 crashes.

As a frequent flyer i don't really have an option what kind of a plane i will fly with. My next flight will be with a 737-800 which is different to the 737 max but still does not make me more comfortable after a flyEgypt plane was forced to do an emergency landing after an explosion on board and similar difficulties to keep the plane in the air (nose down syndrom).
My onward flight will be with a Boeing 787 Dreamliner which had it's share of problems with burning batteries but was never grounded (for accountant reasons).

So now everytime i step on a Boeing plane i wonder if this is a decision between Life and Death.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... as-extras/
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by kaputt » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:50 pm

OMG Boeing 777 - change that models name please !

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/ ... index.html

slash 8 and 9 already have a bad reputation (737)
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by explorer » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:56 pm

They will rectify the problems, and it wont be long before the public has forgotten.
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by Kammekor » Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:06 pm

explorer wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:56 pm
They will rectify the problems, and it wont be long before the public has forgotten.
Not so sure about that.
The repositioning of the engines seems to have a larger effect than expected, this might end up being a perfect storm bringing down the 737 MAX.
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by Freightdog » Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:43 am

Kaputt
Why all the hysteria about Boeing? Airbus crashed a demo aircraft in a demo. Airbus put a hole in a building while taxiing.
Airbus almost killed a crew while engine test a new aircraft with a customer.
The 737Max issue is shameful, but I'm not convinced that that's your angle. It's just convenient.
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by kaputt » Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:06 am

Airlines are cancelling and shifting orders from the Boeing 737max to Airbus.

Not all orders will be cancelled but there are clear developments of how business will look like in the rest of the world in a few years time like:

Russia's Irkut MС-21
The MС-21 made her maiden flight in May 2017, joining the race for the next-generation narrow-body airliner. It seeks to compete with medium-haul jets such as the Boeing 737 MAX, Airbus A320neo and Chinese-made Comac C919. The MC-21 features a composite wing-design, which improves fuel efficiency. Moscow is ready to consider local production of MS-21s in India, according to Russian media.

China's Comac C919
First flight 5 May 2017[1]
Introduction Planned 2021 with China Eastern Airlines[2]
Status Flight testing
Number built 3[3]
Program cost $9.5B announced, $20B+ estimated[4]
The Comac C919 is a narrow-body twinjet airliner developed by Chinese aerospace manufacturer Comac. The development programme was launched in 2008, production of the prototype began in December 2011, it rolled out on 2 November 2015 and the aircraft's maiden flight was on 5 May 2017. Its first commercial deliveries are expected in 2021 to China Eastern Airlines. The aircraft, primarily constructed with aluminium alloys, is to be powered by either CFM International LEAP or ACAE CJ-1000A turbofan engines, and can carry 156 to 168 passengers in a normal operating configuration up to 5,555 km (3000 nmi). It is intended to compete primarily with the Boeing 737 MAX and Airbus A320neo. As of 31 August 2018, Comac has 1008 commitments including 305 firm orders, mostly from Chinese leasing companies or airlines with the exception of GE.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diploma ... mmoth-us35

It's good to have some more competition in the market. Let's hope they're all safe !!
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by Freightdog » Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:19 pm

kaputt wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:54 am

My next flight will be with a 737-800 which is different to the 737 max but still does not make me more comfortable after a flyEgypt plane was forced to do an emergency landing after an explosion on board and similar difficulties to keep the plane in the air (nose down
Like most folks, I just delight in the alarmist type of reporting.
What is this Nose Down syndrome that you now report as affecting the B737-800?
Some elaboration to support your claims, please.
Kaput wrote: So now everytime i step on a Boeing plane i wonder if this is a decision between Life and Death.
It would appear that you actually have something of a mix of conditions from a general Agoraphobia (which is treatable), a fear of flying (which is treatable within reason) and OCD (which is treatable).
The truth is that every time you choose to go to the airport, you are making such a decision, just as you would be if you chose not to go to the airport. Such is life.
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by kaputt » Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:18 pm

My personal concern is that i don't trust Boeing anymore. I am not on a suicide mission because some execs are cutting costs at any price.

Except for the de Haviland Comet in the early 1950's -- an airplane plagued by in-flight break-ups related to structural design flaws -- never before has a brand-new model of passenger jet been involved in such a catastrophe.

Although the Boeing 737 Max will be re-engineered and thoroughly scrutinized so it can fly again safely, the plane will be forever blemished by its history.


I flew everything from the Boeing 707 all the way to the 787 Dreamliner (i have mixed feelings and experiences about the latter one). Never had i any doubts in the quality that Boeing Engineers did the best job they could. Now that has apparently changed simply because there wasn't enough time for the Company Executives to develop a brand new Plane.

If i were a pilot i would have no trust in Boeing anymore. My life would hang on a thin thread everytime i go to work.
I would demand concrete proof that whatever caused the two accidents -- which are still under investigation -- has been fixed. What kind of proof? First, a clear explanation of the MCAS system and how any fault could be remedied or prevented. Second, documentation via an actual test flight or an appropriately equipped simulator that provides a clear checklist for use by pilots in an emergency with absolute certainty of a safe conclusion.
And if there are additional -- or altogether different -- factors that contributed to a probable cause of the crashes, then they should be addressed as well.

Can pilots regain their trust in Boeing, and more specifically the 737 Max? Someday, maybe. But for now, they will not climb into the cockpit until they absolutely feel that their airplane is safe for its most valued customer, their passengers. And that goes for any airliner every day of the year.

For all those unfamiliar with the subject here is a bit of a safety record of the 737 in it's entire history. It certainly does not look good !
http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/b737.htm
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