bong.kuit wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:39 pm Often anti-Americanism is just a response to pathetic patriotism...

So, tell me, how should we feel about our countries? Indifferent?

Which level of pride would be sufficient to dare not enter the realm of the pathetic?

Brody wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:48 pm

bong.kuit wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:39 pm Often anti-Americanism is just a response to pathetic patriotism...

So, tell me, how should we feel about our countries? Indifferent?

Which level of pride would be sufficient to dare not enter the realm of the pathetic?

I think everyone should have the right to feel very proud of their country. Trouble is that if I say I am a proud Englishman I am immediately branded racist, extreme right wing and other such labels. Why is it that everyone can say they are proud of their country except the English?

Apart from that, I think the main issue is not in the way we feel about our own country but more the way we act in others. Cultural awareness is so important yet largely ignored by many.

When in Rome etc.

Brody wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:48 pm

bong.kuit wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:39 pm Often anti-Americanism is just a response to pathetic patriotism...

So, tell me, how should we feel about our countries? Indifferent?

Which level of pride would be sufficient to dare not enter the realm of the pathetic?

Patriotism and nationalism are inherently dividing, 'us' vs. 'them', which I think is definitely negative. It becomes pathetic to me when cheap stories of heroism and theatralic sentimentalism are involved.
Another aspect would be that every country has blood on his hands, the more powerful the more blood.
As the example are the USA (you could do that for nearly every country), how can you be proud of
- the genocide of the native americans
- slavery
- meddling in sovereign countries in the 20th century for economical/geopolitical benefits (eg. S. America, Vietnam), and not caring about the horrible local consequences

To me patriotism is mob mentality and unreflected indoctrination, I am proud of things I have personally achieved, my nationality is pure coincidence.

Here are some quotes by very influential people about the topic, they can word it better than I...

https://inktank.fi/9-of-the-worlds-grea ... tionalism/

bong.kuit wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:17 pm

Brody wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:48 pm

bong.kuit wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:39 pm Often anti-Americanism is just a response to pathetic patriotism...

So, tell me, how should we feel about our countries? Indifferent?

Which level of pride would be sufficient to dare not enter the realm of the pathetic?

Patriotism and nationalism are inherently dividing, 'us' vs. 'them', which I think is definitely negative. It becomes pathetic to me when cheap stories of heroism and theatralic sentimentalism are involved.
Another aspect would be that every country has blood on his hands, the more powerful the more blood.
As the example are the USA (you could do that for nearly every country), how can you be proud of
- the genocide of the native americans
- slavery
- meddling in sovereign countries in the 20th century for economical benefits (eg. S. America, Vietnam), and not caring about the horrible local consequences

To me patriotism is mob mentality and unreflected indoctrination, I am proud of things I have personally achieved, my nationality is pure coincidence.

Here are some quotes by very influential people about the topic, they can word it better than me...

https://inktank.fi/9-of-the-worlds-grea ... tionalism/

OK, so my country has committed tragic acts in the past. So what, I throw out the baby with the bathwater? You're kind of speaking in absolutes.

If I am proud of my Country I am an "unreflective mob member"? There's no in-between, no middle ground?

I participate in my Country's progression. I did during my service in the military and I still do to this day. So in a small part I have "personally achieved" some momentum in my Country's positive direction.

So by your definition I should feel proud and patriotic.

As a whole I think people are becoming disconnected in this world and there is less of a sense of Country/community and we're falling into our own insular, virtual Facebook existences.

Anyway I don't want to debate this. You obviously have your feelings and I have mine, and never the twain shall meet, me thinks.

American servicemen didn t just riot and offend their Australian hosts. They also rioted amongst themselves, fought and killed each other. Their smugness wasn t just towards Australians but also against " inferior" Americans ie, those that could lay down their life for their nation but not drink from the same water fountain as white folks.

The Townsville mutiny was a mutiny by predominantly African American servicemen of the United States Army while serving in Townsville, Australia, during World War II.

About 600 African American troops from the 96th Battalion, US Army Corps of Engineers, were stationed at a base outside of Townsville called Kelso Field. They were a labour battalion and their main job was to build bridges and barracks. The troops had been the subject of regular racial abuse by some of their white officers, and the rumour that a black sergeant had died at the hands of a white superior resulted in the troops of A and C company mutinying. On May 22, 1942, aiming to kill their commander, Captain Francis Williams of Columbus, Georgia, the black troopers began firing machine guns at the tents of white officers, resulting in an eight-hour siege. At least one person was killed and dozens severely injured, and Australian Army soldiers were called into roadblock the rioters.

American journalist Robert Sherrod wrote a report on the mutiny but it was suppressed, as future US president Lyndon B. Johnson, then a young congressman, was visiting Townsville at the time. The mutiny was revealed by a historian in 2012

bong.kuit wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:17 pm

Brody wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:48 pm

bong.kuit wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:39 pm Often anti-Americanism is just a response to pathetic patriotism...

So, tell me, how should we feel about our countries? Indifferent?

Which level of pride would be sufficient to dare not enter the realm of the pathetic?

Patriotism and nationalism are inherently dividing, 'us' vs. 'them', which I think is definitely negative. It becomes pathetic to me when cheap stories of heroism and theatralic sentimentalism are involved.
Another aspect would be that every country has blood on his hands, the more powerful the more blood.
As the example are the USA (you could do that for nearly every country), how can you be proud of
- the genocide of the native americans
- slavery
- meddling in sovereign countries in the 20th century for economical/geopolitical benefits (eg. S. America, Vietnam), and not caring about the horrible local consequences

To me patriotism is mob mentality and unreflected indoctrination, I am proud of things I have personally achieved, my nationality is pure coincidence.

Here are some quotes by very influential people about the topic, they can word it better than I...

https://inktank.fi/9-of-the-worlds-grea ... tionalism/

Euros can't seem to turn back a history book past 100 years, you may want to look again who ran all the fucking slaves to the new world and killed the Indians. Oh and btw many of the Indians themselves joined the Euros to kill their rival Indians, or do you believe a couple hundred Conquistadors managed to top the Aztec empire by themselves