Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam?

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dagenham
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Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Post by dagenham » Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:02 pm

Joker Poker wrote:
dagenham wrote:
Tim, mate..you definitely aint no nutter like UKJ, but c'mon here. Really. This is one person's opinion. A radical zealot at that. There are many highly educated born-again Christians that can be quoted as saying that JC is returning next Tuesday at 4:15 am...
Dags,

Here you go spewing your ignorance again. No Christian worth their salt would be quoting when the second coming is, because, no man knows the day or the hour. Really is that simple.

You astound me with the intensity of your hatred for those unlike you, and your incomprehensible ignorance of the subject.

I wonder what it was that planted this seed of hatred of God so deep inside of you. For something that you see as fiction it is quite remarkable really. Did you have an anti-Santa crusade when you were younger? No? Well why not, it's fiction isn't it?
Joker..you can't be that dim? Really now...of course, that statement was absurd about the return of JC on Tuesday at 4:15 - equally absurd as quoting such a silly "non-content" website run by Christian fanatics? Laughable...

By the way, many misguided preachers in the past have indeed predicted specific dates for JC's return - do your own home work on that!

It aint hatred of "God" - it's open and focused disdain for those who claim their version of "Him" is the only correct one. Christians, Muslims, Hindus, the lot are all just stories for children. That's it.

I'm agnostic and feel strongly that there is a higher power than us...God? Maybe, maybe not. But all these idiotic religions that promise salvation and demand obedience just encourage ignorance and sow divisions between people...obviously...
Winston Churchill said, "Have a cigar, a glass of brandy, pet your dog and get a blow job daily for a productive and fulfilling life"
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Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Post by Tim Linkinwater » Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:20 pm

Here's one to get you in high dudgeon, dags.
I thought Baptists were the happy clappy soul-singing types:

Fundamentalist Westboro Baptist Church says it hopes to stage demonstration as the late actor is laid to rest – because he played a gay man in film The Birdcage.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... rance.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Post by beaker » Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:39 pm

I'm a descendant of this guy-
Roger Williams, Founder of Rhode Island, Arrived in Boston
February 5, 1631
During the 17th century, people left England to escape religious persecution. Many colonists came to America to be able to freely practice their religions. Roger Williams was a defender of religious liberty who arrived in Boston on February 5, 1631.
Ordained to the ministry in the Church of England, Williams discovered Puritanism, a reform movement that developed within the Church of England, during his first parish duty. He converted. Soon after, he was asked to be minister in the Massachusetts Bay Colony. Leaving behind the religious intolerance under England's King Charles I, he and his wife journeyed across the ocean to join the "American Experiment" in Boston in 1631. At first, Williams just wanted to reform the Church of England; soon, he sought separation completely.
Many of Williams's parishioners did not agree with his idea to separate from the Church of England. He then became minister in Salem. There, his ideas also proved too radical. He went to Plymouth but again fell into disfavor. Williams insisted that land must be purchased from the Indians, rather than taken from them forcefully, in order to claim title to it. He again went to Salem and was eventually put on trial in 1635 for his views. His sentence was banishment. Williams then purchased land from the Narragansett Indians and established the settlement of Providence, Rhode Island.
Williams founded the colony of Rhode Island based upon principles of complete religious toleration, separation of church and state, and political democracy (values that the U.S. would later be founded upon). It became a refuge for people persecuted for their religious beliefs. Anabaptists, Quakers, and Jews settled in Rhode Island. After forming the first Baptist church in America, Williams left it to seek spirituality in different ways. He stopped preaching to his friends, the Indians, when he realized that their form of worship also fell under his principle of religious freedom. He declared, "forced worship stinks in God's nostrils." Williams's ideas were radical at the time.

Times and religions, even god himself (who was an old all knowing dude and jesus's father has been change to jesus being lord guess maybe he retired) and the bible all have been basterized
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Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Post by Joon » Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:45 pm

Dag~dag, dear? you worry me. I've seen rabid atheists but never encountered virulent agnostics. They are supposed to be the easy-going, better, superior versions of theists and atheists. Can we talk about it, please?
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Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Post by Rain Dog » Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:31 pm

Joker Poker wrote:
dagenham wrote:
Tim, mate..you definitely aint no nutter like UKJ, but c'mon here. Really. This is one person's opinion. A radical zealot at that. There are many highly educated born-again Christians that can be quoted as saying that JC is returning next Tuesday at 4:15 am...
Dags,

Here you go spewing your ignorance again. No Christian worth their salt would be quoting when the second coming is, because, no man knows the day or the hour. Really is that simple.

You astound me with the intensity of your hatred for those unlike you, and your incomprehensible ignorance of the subject.

I wonder what it was that planted this seed of hatred of God so deep inside of you. For something that you see as fiction it is quite remarkable really. Did you have an anti-Santa crusade when you were younger? No? Well why not, it's fiction isn't it?
JP --- I am not into Christian bashing unless I encounter the hate mongering type. However surely you are aware that a significant number of Christians (In the USA it is primarily Southern Baptist and various cults that follow the like of John Hagee etc) believe they can impact WHEN Jesus returns for the second coming?

In fact this is the foundation for their religious support of Israel. It is "Rapture Theology" and it is fundamental to these zealots and their politics.

The logic works like this (according to their religious beliefs)

1) A foreshadowing of the Return of Jesus (and the resulting apocalypse) is the return of Jerusalem to the Jews and to some restoration of the 2nd temple in Jerusalem.

2) Unfortunately the 3rd most holy site in Islam (Dome of the Rock) has occupied that site for about the last 1,400 years (except for a 100 year period where Christian Crusaders captured it and handed it over to the Augustinians.)

3) The first step in this is to see that Israel and not Muslims has control of all of Jerusalem. Hence the support for Israeli occupation despite all the human rights issues, inherent racism etc.

4) Once this has been done an excuse can be found to demolish the Mosque and reconstruction of the Second Temple can begin. When this is finished Jesus can catch a Tuk Tuk down from the clouds and and lead his followers in a war against evil after which armageddon will come. Ironically the very Jews whom are being supported in this theology will either be converted or slaughtered according to this doctrine.

Obviously I am oversimplifying things a lot as there are many different views even among Fundamentalist Christians as to what EXACTLY Happens in the Tribulaion, 1,000 years war, and rapture --- but the above points about fulfilling prophecy are central to many fundamentalist Christians and their politics.

So here is my point: In a world of 1.2 billion Muslims it is quite possible to find nutters in every country. In a world of 2 billion Christians, Christian nutters can be found in any given country (Westboro Baptist Church being a great example).

But the beliefs I have stated above are fundamental to a HUGE percentage of the politically active Christian right in the USA and in turn drive Republican policy in the Middle East.

This does not apply to all Christians of course -- the sensible Presbyterians for example even support BDS (Boycott and Divestment) against Israel.

Rather than focusing on individual nutters, whether they be nutter Imans at Finsbury Park Mosque or nutter preachers at Westboro Baptist Church, perhaps it would be better to focus on extremism in the mainstream.

There is no shortage in your faith and in many ways the extremists in Islam can be seen as a reaction to extremism in the Christian community and in Israel in addition to centuries of Christian Imperialism

The propaganda says that Arafat walked away from a peace deal in Oslo. The fact it is he was told he had to give up all of Jerusalem (Including Dome of the Rock) to get that deal and he was not willing to go down in history as the person who gave away Islam's third most holy site.

As someone you might know once said .. let ye without sin cast the first stone. The same applies to extremism.
Last edited by Rain Dog on Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:03 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Post by Dara » Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:37 pm

How do you know all that....
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Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Post by Rain Dog » Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:22 pm

Dara wrote:How do you know all that....
When I was younger and much more interested in religion than I am now I did extensive research on the topic. Everyone thinks that the conflict with Muslims and the west is rooted in 911 --- but 911 was a symptom as well as a tool to unleash more extremism from both sides -- not the root cause.

I do not have my library with me in Cambodia but a good place to start would be to start looking at John Hagee who has been hugely influential in right wing USA Christian politics. Another guy is Pat Robertson

There is a lot of stuff on line but some is fringe crap. It is better to start with the major players and try to understand their views in their own words.

A couple of examples:

from: http://www.christians-standing-with-isr ... liefs.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"7.) Prophecy. The Christians Standing with Israel organization aligns itself with what's known in eschatology as the "Pre-Trib, Pre-Mill" viewpoint. We believe this world is soon approaching "the time of Jacob's trouble" -- also known as the Tribulation. This is a literal seven-year period during which God will pour out His Wrath upon the earth. It is also a period in which Israel will draw nearer to Him and come to faith in Messiah. We believe the existing Body of Christ will not endure the Tribulation, and will be Raptured to meet the Lord in the air beforehand (hence the label, "Pre-Trib). However, we also believe many will come to faith during the tribulation period. We believe the Second Coming of Jesus Christ will occur at the conclusion of the Tribulation, and will set up His earthly kingdom in Jerusalem, otherwise known as the millennial kingdom, for a period of one thousand years.

There is also an interesting article here from bible.org

https://bible.org/article/will-israel-b ... -jerusalem" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Post by beaker » Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:26 pm

Joker Poker wrote:
Dags,

Here you go spewing your ignorance again. No Christian worth their salt would be quoting when the second coming is, because, no man knows the day or the hour. Really is that simple.

You astound me with the intensity of your hatred for those unlike you, and your incomprehensible ignorance of the subject.
Just like they wouldn't say the earth is only 2000 years old and dinosaurs are all a conspiracy and if your a good little nazi your going to nirvana and have a blissful life, doing who knows what I guess just reading the bible, for the rest of eternity. %)
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Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Post by Rain Dog » Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:54 pm

beaker wrote:
Joker Poker wrote:
Dags,

Here you go spewing your ignorance again. No Christian worth their salt would be quoting when the second coming is, because, no man knows the day or the hour. Really is that simple.

You astound me with the intensity of your hatred for those unlike you, and your incomprehensible ignorance of the subject.
Just like they wouldn't say the earth is only 2000 years old and dinosaurs are all a conspiracy and if your a good little nazi your going to nirvana and have a blissful life, doing who knows what I guess just reading the bible, for the rest of eternity. %)
And there is this guy -- who is quite important in the southern part of the USA. Using Blood Moons to promote war on Iran.

Watch out for those blood moons :mrgreen:

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael ... ood-Moons/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Four Blood Moons

In his latest book, Four Blood Moons: Something Is About to Change, Hagee lays out what he calls celestial signals. He describes how a series of blood moons in 2014 and 2015 will have great significance for Israel.

Although single blood moons happen fairly regularly, four appearing so closely together is extremely rare. There have only been a series of blood moons a handful of times over the past 500 years.

So what exactly is a blood moon and what is the biblical significance?

"A blood moon is when the Earth comes between the sun and the moon," Hagee explained. "And the sun is shining through the atmosphere of the Earth and casts up on the moon a red shadow. And so the moon appears to be red."

Such moons appear several times in scripture.

In the book of Joel, God says there will be "wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire…the sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord."

In Acts, the Apostle Peter repeats that verse from Joel. And the book of Revelation says that during the Great Tribulation, "the moon will become like blood."

Blood moons are set to appear in April 2014, on Passover, and then again in September 2014 during the Feast of Tabernacles, or Sukkot.

The timing is the same for 2015 -- a total of four blood moons, all appearing on Jewish feast days.

"The sun and the moon and the Earth are controlled by God almighty," Hagee said. "He is the one that is getting them in a direct alignment on a certain day at a certain time -- but each time, it's a Passover or Sukkot. ...

Nuclear Threat

The blood moons of 2014 and 2015 are poised to appear as Iran works toward nuclear weapons and Israel's neighbors, Egypt and Syria, are in chaos.

"The only reason that Iran will not acquire a nuclear bomb will be that Israel chooses a military solution to that crisis," Hagee told CBN News.

"I believe that if that happens, it will start a series of events that will change the course of world history," he said. "If Israel does not, then it will still change the course of world history."

Hagee has been warning of the Iranian nuclear threat through his work with Christians United for Israel, which he founded in 2006. It is now the largest pro-Israel organization in America, with some 1.3 million members.

He holds nights to honor Israel across the country and at San Antonio's Cornerstone Church, where he serves as senior pastor. The first event, in 1981, drew bomb threats and vandalism from anti-Semites.

Yet Hagee continues his mission."
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Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Post by potty » Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:36 pm

trying to understand sects (which are normally extrmeists) is pointless, imo.

a strong hint:
how many of these believers were already extremists BEFORE they joined church.
how many have joined this church, because they felt "understood" - in their weird views.

i dont think, the sects are making the ppl "mad", i think they were already mad and thats why they joined.

to have a platform, to feel understood, to feel alright and being accepted with their extremism.

just look at this norwegian spree killer anders something.
typical example.
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