question about goats

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StroppyChops
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Re: question about goats

Post by StroppyChops »

kocdim wrote: Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:40 pm
Bob tailcat wrote: Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:35 pm
kocdim wrote: Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:24 pm
Bob tailcat wrote: Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:17 pm You wouldn't be the first barang to try goat farming, nor would you be the last to fail. I'd stil like a couple, like I said, but not really worth the hassle. 100-200 is asking for financial losses.
The only way to import goats from Australia is 100 heads. Thats the minimum. We will see next year. Maybe I will find somebody to split the imports 35-50 per person. Then Add cows instead of goats. That way they losses if happen would not be so big. But I agree starting with 100 might be little risky.
I'm no farmer, but importing livestock from a totally different climate sounds like madness, expensive madness at that. Best to invest in local breeds, I'd say, they already got the immunity and genetics to survive.
Local breads are not that good. Not that much meat. And they dont give that much milk also. I have read many missionaries made big farms with imported animals with no problem. As long as you have proper housing. Most of the time fails because the housing is no good for the animals. People try with improvise shelters, like they do with the local breads. And it will fail. And/Or they dont have enough land/nutrients for the animals.
Because the main income comes from the kids. Example if you multiply 100 heads to 300 heads, thats the main income (or 50 heads to 120 heads). The imported animals are for breading purpose.
It's also the food and vet care for the animals. If you're not prepared to spend money on both, you're not going to get western-level of results with the livestock. We have a relationship with an orphanage in Sumatra. The young guys have become young men, and some qualified people from Australia set them up with long white breeding pigs, built the buildings for them, developed the effluent runoff systems to fertilize growing crops, and also taught them how to feed the pigs two hot meals a day of commercial pig-raising meal. It's working beautifully and their piglets are ordered and paid for before they're born - there's a waiting list of buyers. Regardless of which group set up such a project here, can you imagine for a moment that the livestock would keep getting the two hot meals a day, the moment a foreigner wasn't looking?
Bodge: This ain't Kansas, and the neighbours ate Toto!
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kocdim
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Re: question about goats

Post by kocdim »

StroppyChops wrote: Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:46 pm
kocdim wrote: Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:40 pm
Bob tailcat wrote: Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:35 pm
kocdim wrote: Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:24 pm
Bob tailcat wrote: Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:17 pm You wouldn't be the first barang to try goat farming, nor would you be the last to fail. I'd stil like a couple, like I said, but not really worth the hassle. 100-200 is asking for financial losses.
The only way to import goats from Australia is 100 heads. Thats the minimum. We will see next year. Maybe I will find somebody to split the imports 35-50 per person. Then Add cows instead of goats. That way they losses if happen would not be so big. But I agree starting with 100 might be little risky.
I'm no farmer, but importing livestock from a totally different climate sounds like madness, expensive madness at that. Best to invest in local breeds, I'd say, they already got the immunity and genetics to survive.
Local breads are not that good. Not that much meat. And they dont give that much milk also. I have read many missionaries made big farms with imported animals with no problem. As long as you have proper housing. Most of the time fails because the housing is no good for the animals. People try with improvise shelters, like they do with the local breads. And it will fail. And/Or they dont have enough land/nutrients for the animals.
Because the main income comes from the kids. Example if you multiply 100 heads to 300 heads, thats the main income (or 50 heads to 120 heads). The imported animals are for breading purpose.
It's also the food and vet care for the animals. If you're not prepared to spend money on both, you're not going to get western-level of results with the livestock. We have a relationship with an orphanage in Sumatra. The young guys have become young men, and some qualified people from Australia set them up with long white breeding pigs, built the buildings for them, developed the effluent runoff systems to fertilize growing crops, and also taught them how to feed the pigs two hot meals a day of commercial pig-raising meal. It's working beautifully and their piglets are ordered and paid for before they're born - there's a waiting list of buyers. Regardless of which group set up such a project here, can you imagine for a moment that the livestock would keep getting the two hot meals a day, the moment a foreigner wasn't looking?
Yes thats the the other problem. If the person has live stock has to be hands on. You have to do a cleaning, feeding medication the whole thing. If you pay somebody to do it it will not work (from my experience). But you can employ 1-2 people to help you out. But the owner has to be with the animals everyday. If you dont do that, nobody will notice if animal is sick. Or its missing nutrients, etc. Also you have to watch the surroundings. If you dont clean properly many animals get insect/snake bites and they die. But if you do hands on should be ok. If some foreigner whats to do live stock thats my advise also. If you can not be there everyday dont do it. It will not work.
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AndyKK
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Re: question about goats

Post by AndyKK »

Not going to comment too much on this. I am not a farmer, mother had a smallholding where she grow up. I was 7 years old when I started seasonal potato picking, me and my mates were probably the only kids with back ache. Later at I would have been at junior school and when finished for the day l would go to the neighbouring farm to feed the sty pigs, 2000 of them there. Sometimes if that was not enough I would help my friend at weekends on his dads farm. He had 1500 free range pigs in the woodland. Here I have only so far seen a few Khmer small farming operations, a little more like what mum grown up with.
Goats I think is a good idea. Think there is a few knocking about here. I think a very good chance of selling to the Muslim community. Know of two large farms over the border in Thailand with good large numbers.
That gets us to import and export. Thailand some year's ago stopped the import of Cambodian pigs. Although the Thais export plenty to Cambodia.
At the very least if import of livestock is at all possible, tax would surely be paid. I don't know here with quarantine and so on, also it seems to be all down to one person who controls large scale farming! And not suggesting that this is your planning. Also this important player does import Australian cattle and seems to have the monopoly. And has anyone noticed all the large mango plantations around military sites. Anyway this is all immaterial, only babbling and rambling with thoughts. I have lived in the sticks of two, of the countries I mention and the first hurdle are your neighbours.
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khmerhamster
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Re: question about goats

Post by khmerhamster »

StroppyChops wrote:
kocdim wrote: Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:40 pm
Bob tailcat wrote: Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:35 pm
kocdim wrote: Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:24 pm
Bob tailcat wrote: Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:17 pm You wouldn't be the first barang to try goat farming, nor would you be the last to fail. I'd stil like a couple, like I said, but not really worth the hassle. 100-200 is asking for financial losses.
The only way to import goats from Australia is 100 heads. Thats the minimum. We will see next year. Maybe I will find somebody to split the imports 35-50 per person. Then Add cows instead of goats. That way they losses if happen would not be so big. But I agree starting with 100 might be little risky.
I'm no farmer, but importing livestock from a totally different climate sounds like madness, expensive madness at that. Best to invest in local breeds, I'd say, they already got the immunity and genetics to survive.
Local breads are not that good. Not that much meat. And they dont give that much milk also. I have read many missionaries made big farms with imported animals with no problem. As long as you have proper housing. Most of the time fails because the housing is no good for the animals. People try with improvise shelters, like they do with the local breads. And it will fail. And/Or they dont have enough land/nutrients for the animals.
Because the main income comes from the kids. Example if you multiply 100 heads to 300 heads, thats the main income (or 50 heads to 120 heads). The imported animals are for breading purpose.
It's also the food and vet care for the animals. If you're not prepared to spend money on both, you're not going to get western-level of results with the livestock. We have a relationship with an orphanage in Sumatra. The young guys have become young men, and some qualified people from Australia set them up with long white breeding pigs, built the buildings for them, developed the effluent runoff systems to fertilize growing crops, and also taught them how to feed the pigs two hot meals a day of commercial pig-raising meal. It's working beautifully and their piglets are ordered and paid for before they're born - there's a waiting list of buyers. Regardless of which group set up such a project here, can you imagine for a moment that the livestock would keep getting the two hot meals a day, the moment a foreigner wasn't looking?
I totally get your point.
I have seen things like this both thrive and fail spectacularly.
I think orphanage kids are part of the problem. Orphanage kids grow up having everything handed to them (generally) if they work hard, or don’t it doesn’t matter - there will still be a soft hearted donor willing to pay for them to get onto the next scheme/studies/whatever.
They aren’t a great demographic to be used as a case study for project implementation - but often foreigners generalise all locals as a result of their experience with orphanage kids. There are enough of them!
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StroppyChops
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Re: question about goats

Post by StroppyChops »

khmerhamster wrote: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:36 pmOrphanage kids grow up having everything handed to them (generally) if they work hard, or don’t it doesn’t matter - there will still be a soft hearted donor willing to pay for them to get onto the next scheme/studies/whatever.
I agree with your points in general. In this case, the pigs are the responsibility of the young men - it either works or it doesn't based on their efforts, and they know it. The pigs won't be replaced if they die or become inbred.

What I like about this project is that the piggery is alongside a small plot of land which is also the sole domain of the young men. The piggery has two ground level effluent ponds - one is currently in use and the other is drying out to produce fertilizer for the crops that are grown on the plot. When one pond is full, they switch the flow to the other, rinse, repeat. The young men choose which crops to grow and are responsible for the whole cycle, through to selling at market. When we were there last, they were growing coffee and cocoa beans. They rotate the crops, so the previous year would have been vegetables of some sort, almost certainly maize, and some others. I learned a lot about establishing autonomy and independence in already-dependent kids from that orphanage. Should point out that this particular orphanage is a true orphanage (set up in response to a natural disaster) and not a money making business.
Bodge: This ain't Kansas, and the neighbours ate Toto!
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Heng Heng Heng
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Re: question about goats

Post by Heng Heng Heng »

I've still got fond memories of the goat satay I had in Bali back in the early nineties. The guy had a goat carcass hanging up near his bbq and he just cut some strips off and threw another goat on the barbie. Delicious.
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