Leave No Man Behind: The Truth About the Mayaguez Incident. (Extensive)

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Leave No Man Behind: The Truth About the Mayaguez Incident. (Extensive)

Post by Kung-fu Hillbilly »

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U.S. Marines run from the GH53 helicopter that landed them on Koh Tang Island 30 miles off Cambodia in rescue of U.S. merchant ship Mayaguez (May 15, 1975).Image Credit: AP Photo

By Peter Maguire
June 19, 2018

(Extensive article in link.)

The last casualties of the final battle of the Vietnam War were 3 Marines left behind on Cambodia’s Koh Tang Island.

In his new book When the Center Held, Donald Rumsfeld calls the “successful handling” of the Mayaguez Incident, the last battle of the Vietnam War, “a turning point” ........Not all share this rosy and revisionist view of the disastrous and unnecessary search and rescue operation that left 41 American servicemen dead..........

Foremost among the skeptics is Mayaguez survivor and decorated Marine Scout Sniper Fofo Tuitele whose conspicuous and overlooked heroism during the battle is now the subject of a congressional investigation. “We lost 41 and saved 40. What kind of trade is that?.....

Things were not going any better on the east beach, where two helicopters had already been shot down by the Cambodians. “I shot from the distance of about 30 meters from my bunker to the helicopter,” said Em Som. “I aimed for the head and hit the tail. The helicopter was so low that we hit it, it fell to the ground without much damage.”.......

The next morning, Khmer Rouge soldiers cautiously approached the beaches on Koh Tang, unsure that the Americans had left the island. Destroyer escort USS Wilson was patrolling just off the east and west beaches, looking for any signs of the lost machine gun team.......

The Cambodian soldiers realized that each night someone was stealing the rice and fish from their cooking pot. “Our men complained, ‘We don’t know who has eaten the old rice,’” said Em Som, “but they didn’t know that the Americans had stolen their rice. The rice was missing every day.”

https://thediplomat.com/2018/06/leave-n ... -incident/
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Re: Leave No Man Behind: The Truth About the Mayaguez Incident. (Extensive)

Post by doktor_d »

For anyone interested in this topic I can recommend the books "The Last Battle: The Mayaguez Incident and the End of the Vietnam War" by Ralph Wetterhahn and "The 14-Hour War: Valor on Koh Tang and the Recapture of the SS Mayaguez" by James E. Wise and Scott Baron.
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Re: Leave No Man Behind: The Truth About the Mayaguez Incident. (Extensive)

Post by Gilmore »

Amazing that figures in the Ford administration are still claiming it as a victory. In his memoirs, Ford claimed it was one of the two great foreign policy triumphs of his administration, together with the Helsinki Accords, which also turned out to be an abject failure.
The botched assault on Koh Tang didn't rescue the boat or its crew. They were already on their way to Thailand, after being released by the KR from Sihanoukville, where the boat had been transferred from Koh Tang. The operation was a total fuckup, from start to finish. The assault was repelled, with heavy US casualties. When they evacuated, some fool miscounted the numbers and they left behind two marines, who were subsequently executed in Sihanoukville.
I can recommend the first book quoted. but judging from the title of the second, it appears to be a piece of jingoistic nonsense, glorifying the valour of the marines.
Stalin was justifiably condemned for his attempts to rewrite history. Doesn't seem to be the same outcry over the ongoing attempts by leading participants in the Indochina debacle to portray it is a victory for truth, justice and the American Way.
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Re: Leave No Man Behind: The Truth About the Mayaguez Incident. (Extensive)

Post by Kung-fu Hillbilly »

Lessons Learned From 1975 Mayaguez Incident

Dec. 11, 2018
BY David Vergun

"Christopher J. Lamb, a research fellow at National Defense University, spoke at the Pentagon about lessons learned from what he called the “Mayaguez Crisis.” He based his research on personal interviews, memoirs and recently declassified message traffic between the U.S. government and the military, he said."

1. The crisis was poorly managed, as the White House and the Defense Department clashed over control of military operations. The National Security Council staff, under the leadership of Henry Kissinger, did not trust Defense Secretary James R. Schlesinger to execute presidential orders....."

2 Air and naval gunfire support were uncoordinated due to insufficient joint interoperability and poor planning and communications......

3 The Mayaguez Crisis also played a part in the creation of U.S. Special Operations Command in 1987, he said........

4 Marine Corps doctrine of assaulting an entrenched enemy with a 3-to-1 numerical superiority was violated, he said. Military intelligence estimated that there were between 100 and 200 enemy forces. A force of just 270 Marines was sent in,......

5 Mission command, the military’s current doctrine of conducting warfare, relies heavily on decentralization and operating on commander intent, he said. “As good as that is, you have to provide [adequate] oversight.” Instead, commanders in the Mayaguez incident assumed subordinates would arrange requisite air support for ground operations, which did not happen.....

https://www.defense.gov/explore/story/A ... -incident/
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Re: Leave No Man Behind: The Truth About the Mayaguez Incident. (Extensive)

Post by Felgerkarb »

doktor_d wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:22 am For anyone interested in this topic I can recommend the books "The Last Battle: The Mayaguez Incident and the End of the Vietnam War" by Ralph Wetterhahn and "The 14-Hour War: Valor on Koh Tang and the Recapture of the SS Mayaguez" by James E. Wise and Scott Baron.
Wetterhahn got a lot wrong. He was very wrong about the recovery mission he was on being the first. Totally untrue, as I was on the first recovery mission to Tang Island and he was not there. In addition, some of his details on the lost men were incorrect, as again, I conducted the first interviews with former Khmer Rouge cadre who were there at the time of the battle. I also conducted a battlefield survey of the area and retraced their steps based on eyewitness testimony and it doesn't match up with his version very well.

I emailed him about it when the book came out and he got very angry with me...
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Re: Leave No Man Behind: The Truth About the Mayaguez Incident. (Extensive)

Post by Gator »

Felgerkarb wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:01 pm
doktor_d wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:22 am For anyone interested in this topic I can recommend the books "The Last Battle: The Mayaguez Incident and the End of the Vietnam War" by Ralph Wetterhahn and "The 14-Hour War: Valor on Koh Tang and the Recapture of the SS Mayaguez" by James E. Wise and Scott Baron.
Wetterhahn got a lot wrong. He was very wrong about the recovery mission he was on being the first. Totally untrue, as I was on the first recovery mission to Tang Island and he was not there. In addition, some of his details on the lost men were incorrect, as again, I conducted the first interviews with former Khmer Rouge cadre who were there at the time of the battle. I also conducted a battlefield survey of the area and retraced their steps based on eyewitness testimony and it doesn't match up with his version very well.

I emailed him about it when the book came out and he got very angry with me...
Are there any books or articles on the Mayaguez Incident that you'd recommend?
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Re: Leave No Man Behind: The Truth About the Mayaguez Incident. (Extensive)

Post by Felgerkarb »

Gator wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:35 pm
Felgerkarb wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:01 pm
doktor_d wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:22 am For anyone interested in this topic I can recommend the books "The Last Battle: The Mayaguez Incident and the End of the Vietnam War" by Ralph Wetterhahn and "The 14-Hour War: Valor on Koh Tang and the Recapture of the SS Mayaguez" by James E. Wise and Scott Baron.
Wetterhahn got a lot wrong. He was very wrong about the recovery mission he was on being the first. Totally untrue, as I was on the first recovery mission to Tang Island and he was not there. In addition, some of his details on the lost men were incorrect, as again, I conducted the first interviews with former Khmer Rouge cadre who were there at the time of the battle. I also conducted a battlefield survey of the area and retraced their steps based on eyewitness testimony and it doesn't match up with his version very well.

I emailed him about it when the book came out and he got very angry with me...
Are there any books or articles on the Mayaguez Incident that you'd recommend?
I don't unrecommend Wetterhahn...overall it's good, especially the backstory on the Marines and details of the landing. I recommend reading everything, as most of the material on the subject overall is pretty thin.

I remember swimming in the cove where the landing took place, the rotor heads of the choppers were still there sticking out of the water -- the rest of the wrecks stripped out and long gone years before I got there in 1991 (about two weeks before Sihanouk returned to Cambodia after the 1991 Paris Peace Agreement). That mission was the first POW/MIA mission in Cambodia since the war ended in 1975.
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Re: Leave No Man Behind: The Truth About the Mayaguez Incident. (Extensive)

Post by John Bingham »

Good article and pictures here:

https://www.phnompenhpost.com/post-week ... yfp4MoaNtg

Image
Old gun emplacement on Koh Tang with Type 58 Chinese AA gun. I don't believe these were installed till after the Mayaguez incident, but I'm just guessing.
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Re: Leave No Man Behind: The Truth About the Mayaguez Incident. (Extensive)

Post by Felgerkarb »

John Bingham wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:05 pm Good article and pictures here:

https://www.phnompenhpost.com/post-week ... yfp4MoaNtg

Image
Old gun emplacement on Koh Tang with Type 58 Chinese AA gun. I don't believe these were installed till after the Mayaguez incident, but I'm just guessing.
There were none at the landing site, as they would have cut the Marines to pieces had there been. The landing zone was a freaking kill zone, with manned trenches on every side of the cove. It is a testament to the Marines that they managed to fight inland through that hell after getting shot to pieces coming in.
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Re: Leave No Man Behind: The Truth About the Mayaguez Incident. (Extensive)

Post by SternAAlbifrons »

Felgerkarb wrote,
"There were none at the landing site, as they would have cut the Marines to pieces had there been. The landing zone was a freaking kill zone, with manned trenches on every side of the cove. It is a testament to the Marines that they managed to fight inland through that hell after getting shot to pieces coming in."

These are some shots of the kind of manned trenches and machine gun nests that were probably in place at Koh Tang.
These shots are from an tiny island 30 k's WSW of Koh Tang. ie approx 80k's from Sihanoukville (old name possibly Ile de Fleur).
The two rocky beaches on the island had quite extensive, but very primitive fortifications. Almost certainly KR era.

The centre of this sandstone island has been totally shattered by what looks like a bomb of similar size to the 5000 pound monster they dropped on Koh Tang. The whole natural stratified sandstone bulk is now a mass of gigantic broken boulders and deep crevasse.
My guess is that it may have happened during the night of the extensive bombing of Koh Tang, or it may have happened during earlier US bombing campaign. I can find no reference.

Sorry for the quality of these photos but together they give you an idea of the kind of fortifications the KR had on even the outmost islands. And similar no doubt to what the marines had to deal with on koh Tang.

Image

Machine gun "nest".
Image

Trench outline. Rough stone walls, topped by heaped broken dead coral branches (this old coral lies in dunes behind the rock beach).
These trenches led to rough hewn storage and living area that were built int the sanstone behind, and extended out to machine gun emplacements covering the beach.
Image

This is the firing zone from these fortifications. This fortification, and the one at the other end of the beach, would indeed have created in a deadly crossfire. ("freaking kill zone")
Koh Tang landing zone is a more open sandy beach but no doubt the fortifications would have been equally well placed.
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