vladimir wrote:

Rain Dog wrote:One of the biggest complaints about K440 is that admin protected certain long term or high volume posters from criticisms by others.

I fear that trait is starting to emerge here.

Nail.On head.

Indefensible OD, you can reason all you want, but you know and I know.

Isn't that true in life, the things we vocalise so much about are the things we fear becoming?

And then we do.

+1

To his credit OD has dealt with most of this heated thread well. But we all know what banning Dag was about. Kind of disappointing and reminiscent of some of the old k440 complaints.

The third part of this series crossed my Facebook feed just a moment ago. Posted without comment.

The Islamic State (Part 1)



The Islamic State (Part 2)



The Islamic State (Part 3)

Religion is in the news in Australia a lot at the moment. An Australian lad fighting for ISIS has been showing off pictures of his son parading around with the severed head of an enemy soldier.

That is wrong on so many levels!

Being an atheist myself it'd tend to not take sides in a religious war but if it came down to it I'd likely side with the Christians as being the much lessor of two evils.

As for stroppy chops. He may be a missionary but in my conversations with him both on the forum and by pm and facebook I think I can rightfully say he is a man of decent morals and he wouldn't go about his missionary work if he had to overstep his own personal boundaries.

StroppyChops wrote:The third part of this series crossed my Facebook feed just a moment ago. Posted without comment.

The Islamic State (Part 1)

Where were CEO and youtube during the Spanish Inquisition?

And when the kiddy-fiddling Catholic priests were doing dirty deeds?

Oh, wait...

Digg3r wrote: As for stroppy chops..... he wouldn't go about his missionary work

Posting this on behalf of the gagged Dagenham (via text).

Hang on a minute, guv. Whatchoo talkin'? He ain't doing no missionary work, right? Just educating the brownies.

vladimir wrote:Oh, wait...

Waiting... I genuinely missed your point. Did you have one?

Tim Linkinwater wrote:Hang on a minute, guv. Whatchoo talkin'? He ain't doing no missionary work, right? Just educating the brownies.

At the moment 'he' is making a twat of himself trying to learn the language. Oh, actually, you got me, I did think "Oh God help me" while talking to a Khmer person the other day. But I thought that in English and they think in Khmer, so that doesn't count, right?

StroppyChops wrote:
"How about you stop stamping your little foot there, tiger, and stop telling me what to do or not do. Hmmkay?"

Haha --- I say let's drop the personal attacks and that is your reply. Ok -- keep them up if you need to. Very "Christ-Like" of you.

StroppyChops wrote: "Exactly as happened in KL a few years ago, which was previously an amicably three-religion state .... It's what I see happening in Australia, as happened (and I stated in my OP but you chose to ignore) in KL some years ago. KL had it quite nicely balanced - three major religions in near-harmony. That did not change in just two years by population drift."

You obviously know very little of Malaysian history. The entire post colonial history of Malaysia and Singapore is built on racial disharmony. It is the primary reason that Singapore is not part of Malaysia. UMNO - the ruling party is a Party that emphasizes systematic advantages to Malays over Chinese due to genuine fears that Malays cannot compete economically with their minority Chinese neighbors. Thus Malays receive privileges (public sector hiring and scholarships) and UMNO pursues a very moderate interpretation of Islam to counterbalance this and keep the Chinese dominated private sector happy. It is a pragmatic if somewhat unfair approach to a real problem. The only more fundamentally Islamist part is PAS which is popular in only three of Malaysia's 13 states (none of which are KL or anywhere KL. Try to doing some research before posting such crap.

StroppyChops wrote: Australians are currently debating religion in schools, the place of God in Australian culture, and whether to keep mentions of God in the articles of the nation. Politics are sensitive to a politician's professed religion or absence thereof. Parent groups are complaining (in my first-hand experience) that Christmas and Easter can no longer be mentioned in school, although Ramadan is widely taught to show that we're sensitive to 'new cultures' in Australia.

Haha -- the old "War on Christmas" Canard. I knew it.

I doubt you are genuinely interested but here is an interesting article on this phenomenon written by a secular humanist not a muslim.

http://www.alternet.org/story/71320/%27 ... ecularists

Some good excerpts:

"British Christians yearn to be martyrs, but frankly atheists are a pretty toothless substitute for lions. In a daft parliamentary debate this month on something called Christianophobia, Mark Pritchard MP accused the politically correct of banning religion from Christmas cards and advent calendars: "Many shoppers find it increasingly difficult to purchase greetings cards that refer to Jesus." Alas, market forces are probably rather stronger than humanist plots: with only 7% of people in church of a Sunday these days, Santa and the Snowman trump the nativity."

also

"All this would just be seasonal silliness if it were not cover for a more sinister drumbeat. The right has taken to flying the "Christian" flag in ways that suggest none too subtly that foreigners - Muslims - are stealing our culture and traditions"

and also

"But we are innocent. It is the Christians who are stirring this dangerous pot, inventing non-stories, yearning for martyrdom - and worse, fermenting an outraged sense among the mainly secular population that they had better call themselves Christian because, as the BNP says, British "Heritage, Tradition and Culture" (read Kultur) are under threat from Muslims. While pretending to attack us, covertly these Christians stir resentment against immigrants."

I suspect most reading this thread are tired of you and I going back and forth --- particularly given your penchant for making things personal rather than addressing the issues at hand.

That said, this article is a must read for those trying to understand the POV you are presenting and the underlying prejudices that often drive such arguments. BNP ... FFS.

StroppyChops wrote: Have I denegrated Islam or Muslims in this thread? No. Am I saying that an Islamic Australia would be a bad thing to be avoided? No - but I did intend that if Australians continue to actively pursue a negative stance towards it's current national formal religion, it's almost certain that the religion will change to Islam.
'

You are joking right? Here again is the forum post you quoted to launch this thread. Please tell us how such crap is related to any meaningful discussion on the role of Christianity in Australian Civics.

"Yes. It is. The establishment of Islamic Courts in Europe prove that adherents to Islam aren't permitted to follow the laws of the State in which they reside. The fact that, in a Western Democracy, it can be ruled 'legal' for a male Islamic adherent to beat his wife is beyond atrocious; yet if a male citizen of the same State, who doesn't adhere to Islam, commits the same act, he will be charged accordingly to the laws of the State in which he resides. It is a double-standard that those who do not adhere to Islam have to endure. It is a situation whereby the Secular West is appeasing, and even supporting, the expansion of a religion in a predominantly non-religious region."

Since you will probably just reply with another personal attack instead of answering the queston (as usual), I will answer it for you -- quoting the previous article just cited.

"Humanists" descriptor added to clarify perspective of author.

"But we (humanists) are innocent. It is the Christians who are stirring this dangerous pot, inventing non-stories, yearning for martyrdom - and worse, fermenting an outraged sense among the mainly secular population that they had better call themselves Christian because, as the BNP says, British "Heritage, Tradition and Culture" (read Kultur) are under threat from Muslims. While pretending to attack us, covertly these Christians stir resentment against immigrants. "

Tim Linkinwater wrote:

Digg3r wrote: As for stroppy chops..... he wouldn't go about his missionary work

Posting this on behalf of the gagged Dagenham (via text).

Hang on a minute, guv. Whatchoo talkin'? He ain't doing no missionary work, right? Just educating the brownies.

Have to love Dag's persistence

Rain Dog wrote:

StroppyChops wrote:"How about you stop stamping your little foot there, tiger, and stop telling me what to do or not do. Hmmkay?"

Haha --- I say let's drop the personal attacks and that is your reply. Ok -- keep them up if you need to. Very "Christ-Like" of you.

There was no 'we' in your post, Kemosabe, you were giving me a direct instruction much as you've done all along, but you go right ahead and re-write yourself all you like. And what, you seriously think your childish WWJD barb is meaningful? That just tells me how little you've got, other than piss and vinegar. Should I now feel some sort of guilt and blush, before being 'meek and mild'?

StroppyChops wrote:"Exactly as happened in KL a few years ago, which was previously an amicably three-religion state .... It's what I see happening in Australia, as happened (and I stated in my OP but you chose to ignore) in KL some years ago. KL had it quite nicely balanced - three major religions in near-harmony. That did not change in just two years by population drift."

You obviously know very little of Malaysian history. [deflection crap deleted] Try to doing some research before posting such crap.

Gee, thanks. Did I mention Malaysia, or KL?

Haha -- the old "War on Christmas Canard. I knew it.

I doubt you are genuinely interested but here is an interesting article on this phenomenon written by a secular humanist not a muslim.

http://www.alternet.org/story/71320/%27 ... ecularists

[snip: some cut and pastes, all good stuff, bravo for your mouse skills]

I suspect most reading this thread are tired of you and I going back and forth --- particularly given your penchant for making things personal rather than aaddressing the issues at hand.

That said this article is a must read for those trying to understand the POV you are presenting and the underlying prejudices that drve it. BNP ... FFS.

You 'knew' it... bully for you. Hey, good research skills in finding that article, that's a real coup finding one from not-a-muslim. And thanks on behalf of the 'readers' for presuming to speak for them - I'm pretty confident, based on experience, that they'll make their own minds up on who makes stuff personal and who's dodged the responses that have been given.