setting u business in Cambodia

Whether you're a working stiff or a business owner yourself, this is the place to discuss all aspects of financing your drinking habit ;-)

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james1234
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Re: setting u business in Cambodia

Post by james1234 »

I found a a tax update
https://www.dfdl.com/resources/legal-an ... uary-2016/
This in itself represents a very significant development as those sole proprietors whose annual turnover exceeds approximately USD5k per month, on average, will now be required to charge VAT, file monthly and annual tax returns, collect and pay certain withholding taxes and be subjected to tax audits whereas previously they would probably have negotiated their taxes upfront with the tax officer (under the estimated tax regime).
It would appear that those sole proprietors whose turnover does not exceed on average USD5k per month will not be required to pay any tax – be it corporate or patent tax.
So to me its seems to be correct that you can have a small business that has a turn over of less than $5000 per month you don't have to file tax/VAT and other shit reports. That is really great because I hate these paperwork. Another reason to move to Cambodia :beer3:

I presume I still have to pay income tax? How do you file this, or can you just save some money wait till shit hits the fan and than negotiate your way out?

Update: Found something extra:
[/Are investment income and capital gains taxed in Cambodia? If so, how?

Non-employment income sourced within Cambodia is not subject to salary withholding tax. However, profits tax may be payable.
quote]
LaudJohn
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Re: setting u business in Cambodia

Post by LaudJohn »

Jack.R. wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:45 am How did you get the 500.000.000riel tax audit fine Laudjohn? That's really high. Did you have high profitability and particularly large turnover? Did they give you any explanation?
It is just a figure they made up. This is about the 10% vat, the business (hotel) was not profitable until I took it over.

No explanation as to how they arrived at the figure. Despite us paying tax all the way along.

I am not dealing with them as I would lose my temper and insult them too much.
Jack.R.
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Re: setting u business in Cambodia

Post by Jack.R. »

james1234 wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:10 am I found a a tax update
https://www.dfdl.com/resources/legal-an ... uary-2016/
This in itself represents a very significant development as those sole proprietors whose annual turnover exceeds approximately USD5k per month, on average, will now be required to charge VAT, file monthly and annual tax returns, collect and pay certain withholding taxes and be subjected to tax audits whereas previously they would probably have negotiated their taxes upfront with the tax officer (under the estimated tax regime).
It would appear that those sole proprietors whose turnover does not exceed on average USD5k per month will not be required to pay any tax – be it corporate or patent tax.
So to me its seems to be correct that you can have a small business that has a turn over of less than $5000 per month you don't have to file tax/VAT and other shit reports. That is really great because I hate these paperwork. Another reason to move to Cambodia :beer3:

I presume I still have to pay income tax? How do you file this, or can you just save some money wait till shit hits the fan and than negotiate your way out?

Update: Found something extra:
[/Are investment income and capital gains taxed in Cambodia? If so, how?

Non-employment income sourced within Cambodia is not subject to salary withholding tax. However, profits tax may be payable.
quote]
That is old information. Look for the 2017 updates.
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Arget
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Re: setting u business in Cambodia

Post by Arget »

A friend running a busines was told that he owed a large amount of tax. When he questioned the "tax amn" he said all barangs earn $6000 + each month so you pay tax on that. He showed all the books and this had all employees on the payroll. The total was $7000 (?) The tax man said that is false and you must pay me today. He was told to fuck off. Next month another came back and tried to hit him up again. This time he let the company accountant loose on the Tax man and after three hours of ask, show and yelling he had to accept that all proper taxes had been paid.
Because of this he is now targeted and will probably have to close the business and start again when they come for him next time. They don't like to lose and don't understand that doing it by the book will keep business here and not walk away. The Govt likes the Chinese but the little tax man does not deal with them and gets nothing.
Greed is killing businesses and when they ask for huge tea money they lose out.
james1234
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Re: setting u business in Cambodia

Post by james1234 »

Have been reading 10 pages of updates and did not find any info for very small business with turnover up to 5000$.

I did find this article: https://www.dfdl.com/resources/legal-an ... ect-data/
GDT to visit all businesses in Phnom Penh to collect data. Even those enterprises that do not meet the criteria to register as a small real regime taxpayer are still required to register with the GDT as per Prakas on Tax Registration No. 496 that was issued earlier this year.
So they start in PP and do the rest of the country later. :dragonchase:

My conclusion:
= For the Cambodia tax law: • Small enterprise is a single person entity or partnership. - Annual turnover from KHR 250 million riels to KHR 700 million riels.
= Company with turnover below 5000$ must be very very small company, and for what I believe after reading a lot of stuff, must NOT do VAT filing and no profit tax filing at this moment (12-2017).
= Most Khmer and expats do not register such very small business. :mrgreen:
= Government is trying to get a grip on tax filing and trying to get everyone registered, of course to have them pay tax later.
= Fines for not filing or wrong filing are not that high. From up to 10% for first offenders to up to 25% for more heavy cases (here up to 100%). But sometimes the officials just guess and set high fine that can be negotiated (preferable by Khmer representative). So just save the money in a bankaccount and see what happens. :wink:
= It will probably take some years, but every small and very small business will be registered and pay taxes :evil:
= Bookkeeping for very small and small companies is very simple: sales book, purchase book and annual stock. That's it. :beer3:

So it is still a nice environment to start a small project as sole proprietorship. Taxes are not that high (lot lower than in Europe). Not registering is not that dangerous, but make sure you have money to pay the VAT and Taxes if necessary. 10% VAT and 10-15% of profit for small company.

So please, if my information and assumptions are wrong or uncomplete, please correct me :please:
Barang chgout
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Re: setting u business in Cambodia

Post by Barang chgout »

I like that. Please let it be correct.

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Abc123
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Re: setting u business in Cambodia

Post by Abc123 »

First off, excellent thread.
Have I got it right that small khmer businesses don't bother to register their company names or for income tax if income is under 250,000.000 Khr p year?

I presume they don't have work permits either?

What about foreign work permits? If you run your own business, will you not be required to register your company name and: therefore, also register with the tax office in order to obtain a work permit?

It seems a bit of a catch 22.


Need to read up on 496 I think. This link is to a high class dodgy US lawyer that lives and works here. Maybe there is a better source?

Sciaroni Explains Prakas No. 496 On Tax Registration
https://www.b2b-cambodia.com/news/sciar ... istration/
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Kayve
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Re: setting u business in Cambodia

Post by Kayve »

james1234 wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:08 pm Have been reading 10 pages of updates and did not find any info for very small business with turnover up to 5000$.

I did find this article: https://www.dfdl.com/resources/legal-an ... ect-data/
GDT to visit all businesses in Phnom Penh to collect data. Even those enterprises that do not meet the criteria to register as a small real regime taxpayer are still required to register with the GDT as per Prakas on Tax Registration No. 496 that was issued earlier this year.
So they start in PP and do the rest of the country later. :dragonchase:

My conclusion:
= For the Cambodia tax law: • Small enterprise is a single person entity or partnership. - Annual turnover from KHR 250 million riels to KHR 700 million riels.
= Company with turnover below 5000$ must be very very small company, and for what I believe after reading a lot of stuff, must NOT do VAT filing and no profit tax filing at this moment (12-2017).
= Most Khmer and expats do not register such very small business. :mrgreen:
= Government is trying to get a grip on tax filing and trying to get everyone registered, of course to have them pay tax later.
= Fines for not filing or wrong filing are not that high. From up to 10% for first offenders to up to 25% for more heavy cases (here up to 100%). But sometimes the officials just guess and set high fine that can be negotiated (preferable by Khmer representative). So just save the money in a bankaccount and see what happens. :wink:
= It will probably take some years, but every small and very small business will be registered and pay taxes :evil:
= Bookkeeping for very small and small companies is very simple: sales book, purchase book and annual stock. That's it. :beer3:

So it is still a nice environment to start a small project as sole proprietorship. Taxes are not that high (lot lower than in Europe). Not registering is not that dangerous, but make sure you have money to pay the VAT and Taxes if necessary. 10% VAT and 10-15% of profit for small company.

So please, if my information and assumptions are wrong or uncomplete, please correct me :please:
It seems to be a pretty good understanding of the situation.

There's an issue I'd like to raise, about the visa ? You'll be living here on tourist visa and will have to come back and worth as you're not registered to MOC or MOL (labour) to provide a work permit.

Don't register at all ... If they were to find you on one location, you should just move to a new place (as long as it's a small business)
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Kayve
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Re: setting u business in Cambodia

Post by Kayve »

LaudJohn wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:03 pm DO NOT

I repeat..

DO NOT

register and operate under an MOC registered company structure here unless absolutely necessary.

Operate as a sole trader.

I have two companies. One I bought as it was the only way to buy the asset. I need to close it down soon as I have a bullshit audit tax bill of over 500,000,000 riel. It includes an audit for years for which I have already been audited and settled with the tax office.

The tax officials never once came to the business, never once asked to see the books. They pick a number out of thin air and then add penalties etc and make you negotiate. The officials are paid a commission. I am going to have to transfer the asset into some elses name and close that company, which will increase the risk of this 6 figure investment markedly. I still pay my local former manager (more each month than an English Language teacher earns in SHV), to deal with these issues on call for me, despite the business no longer operating.

I have registered another company to own land. It does not trade and has only just got its first non revenue producing asset and It still costs me $165 per month to get the tax papers done each month and pay a token amount of tax.

You can take advice from others who may think "they know", but I am advising you from bitter experience.
LaudJohn, I'm curious about how all of this story gonna process.
You took over the company so your name is on the patent I assume. If the taxes have issued an audit tax bill then your name is "marked". What I mean is you won't be able to close your company until you settle with them and furthermore, if you were to have your name on some hard land title, you won't be able to sell it because the tax gets their 4% cut on the transaction but they won't process it as you "own" them money.

Where do you think it's going ? Or you're just letting it go for the moment ?

Thanks for your feedback.
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james1234
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Re: setting u business in Cambodia

Post by james1234 »

There's an issue I'd like to raise, about the visa ? You'll be living here on tourist visa and will have to come back and worth as you're not registered to MOC or MOL (labour) to provide a work permit.
Yeah, I have been thinking about this too.
Found this info about visa and work permit:
[url][/http://www.movetocambodia.com/expat-lif ... mbodia/url]
Seems pretty up to date info.
I plan on going to Cambodia september 2018 and who knows what the situation will be? :oops:

I think it is possible at this moment to aply a EB (business) visa as freelancher, what I actually am. So it must be possible to get work permit. Possibly it is necessary to register at the GTD as very small sole proprieator with turn around less than 5000$. I will have to see what the situation will be at 9-2018.

Any advise is Always wellcome. :Yahoo!:

Another question is how to invoice my customers in Europe. I do designing for some publishers and have to make invoices once I moved and setteled in Cambodia. Will have to be paid in my Cambodian Bankaccount than. Anyone experiance with that? :please:
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