flying chicken wrote:If anything, they getting push further and further away from town for 'development'.

Here's the thing... they're poor. Development won't make them rich, though it may improve their lives in small ways. No they can't go to the malls and enjoy the services... but neither can anyone else if the power is always out or the city is disgusting with trash. So the side effects of development CAN benefit them. Not to mention the income opportunities is creates for motodop and tuktuk drivers as more people are more active in the city.

And EVERY major city in EVERY country will have poor people. Unavoidable really. They show up in the hopes of nabbing some crumbs of that pie the see everyone eating, because even the little bit they get is still better than what they had. The question is what part of the city to put them in. In America it's frequently the inner city. Urban ghettos you have to pass through or work your way around to get to different districts. Those with money move outside the city in suburbs... we call it "white flight" as those moving into the burbs are generally upper to middle class whites, and the collapsing property values in the areas they leave behind are generally refilled with low income blacks. This is actually damaging to the city as it's now unable to expand because of the suburbs around it and is losing tax money for services, then lower quality services for the poor who remain make crime rates higher and property values lower so there's even more "white flight". Eventually you either clean up areas and focus services on them to try and make it more appealing to those who have money... called gentrification... or you get Detroit.

Phnom Penh would be WELL on it's way to becoming Detroit if the poorer areas were central and not being pushed away from the city. Especially since not a single government official would DARE dip in their pocket money to facilitate a gentrification type action to save it.

In short, they have to be pushed somewhere... better to the edges than to the center.

OrangeDragon wrote: Here's the thing... they're poor. Development won't make them rich, though it may improve their lives in small ways. No they can't go to the malls and enjoy the services... but neither can anyone else if the power is always out or the city is disgusting with trash. So the side effects of development CAN benefit them. Not to mention the income opportunities is creates for motodop and tuktuk drivers as more people are more active in the city.

Ok, I see your point there. I often find myself chuck trash on the side of random streets too when there arent no trash cans to be found. Why do think when visiting Angkor temples you see all those females workers wearing green uniform sweeping leaves and picking up trash; when the management could of simply buy one of those cleaning trucks with the tourist revenues. The Apsara called it giving employments, but I call it for 'tourist effect.'

OrangeDragon wrote:And EVERY major city in EVERY country will have poor people. Unavoidable really. They show up in the hopes of nabbing some crumbs of that pie the see everyone eating, because even the little bit they get is still better than what they had. The question is what part of the city to put them in. In America it's frequently the inner city. Urban ghettos you have to pass through or work your way around to get to different districts. Those with money move outside the city in suburbs... we call it "white flight" as those moving into the burbs are generally upper to middle class whites, and the collapsing property values in the areas they leave behind are generally refilled with low income blacks. This is actually damaging to the city as it's now unable to expand because of the suburbs around it and is losing tax money for services, then lower quality services for the poor who remain make crime rates higher and property values lower so there's even more "white flight". Eventually you either clean up areas and focus services on them to try and make it more appealing to those who have money... called gentrification... or you get Detroit.

I am not disputing about the inequality in the world. We are talking about a fraction of the size of California here, population of 14 millions people; why is that 80% of the population is still suffering. I see luxury cars on the road of Phnom Penh than I see on the road of Auckland. Why do thousands of Khmer seek work overseas instead of in their own country, simply it is hopeless. And you are not seriously comparing Detroit to the hopeless Cambodians are you? Where one have a choice, the others dont.

OrangeDragon wrote:
In short, they have to be pushed somewhere... better to the edges than to the center.

Served them right when they got forced to move out from their own land.

How did a person born into a poor family in the ghetto of detroit have a choice? Sure, some slightly better options... but not drastically much. And didn't one of the wealthiest men in this country start off ass broke and making bicycle tires from melted down shoe soles?

Yes there's wealth inequality... but I'd say the reason Khmer go overseas to work is fatter paychecks for the same job... and that's just economic difference. GDP of 8 million vs GDP of 10 trillion.... guess which has bigger paying jobs? Giving money to the poor will not suddenly cause a surge to your GDP and an increase in wages, so you're really talking about 2 different subjects. For the Cambodian economy to grow quickly they need exports. FDI can VERY much help with this, but I think a lot of foreigners blow that horn WAY too hard when internal investment could do very well towards it as well... and as the appearing/widening middle class grows I think we'll see significantly more of that.

What I feel would be ideal towards stimulating internal investment growth would be "mutual fund" type investment... where 300-400 middle class Khmer can each make a long term moderate/slow growth investment of a couple of thousand and in the end it's all put into 2 or 3 well planned small businesses. All done via a broker who watches the investments and establishes the payouts/etc. This would give people who can now partially afford them a long term retirement fund, as well as putting that money to a collective use to further develop the economy. Now that they have a stock exchange if they learn how it works and get businesses actually using it this sort of thing would be possible.

That might seem like it's leaving out the lower class again, but those businesses it's invested in create jobs... and each time a job is filled it creates more jobs (because working people have money to spend, so people need to make the things they want to buy). each time one of THOSE jobs is filled it creates more jobs... and so on. The lower class then have more opportunity for jobs and to pull themselves up from the lower status.

Other than the stock exchange/regulation, you'll notice that process doesn't involve the government at all... though they could offer a few things to boost it along the way.

Served them right when they got forced to move out from their own land.

Sure. That sucked. And I mean, it's not like they were poor on that land as well right? Instead of focusing on blame, try focusing on solutions. A large problem with Khmer both past and present, here and abroad, seems to be that focusing on who to blame for problems takes priority to fixing problems.

HotRecruiter wrote:

kiwiincambodia wrote:

F! yeah!!

On seeing this image for the first time, I literally thought the same thing!

what state or states did you visit? must have been down south

vladimir wrote:I give nb a month before we read about his passing/ an incident in the papers, and I think I'm being generous.

In that case maybe I should take him off ignore.

Bong Sravung wrote:what state or states did you visit? must have been down south

I don't think it matters, as George Carlin said, "America a shopping mall, a big fucking shopping mall".

Blame the motos? That's cute. Blame the critical lack of infrastructure and the anarchy. This country is as close to pure anarchy as you can get. They don't even have a viable land route to their major trading partner (vietnam).

OrangeDragon wrote:How did a person born into a poor family in the ghetto of detroit have a choice? Sure, some slightly better options... but not drastically much. And didn't one of the wealthiest men in this country start off ass broke and making bicycle tires from melted down shoe soles?

What is it you dont get? People living in Detroit i.e. Americans can move to other states or countries for better employment. Whereas Cambodians on the other hand, their option is limited.

OrangeDragon wrote:Yes there's wealth inequality... but I'd say the reason Khmer go overseas to work is fatter paychecks for the same job... and that's just economic difference. GDP of 8 million vs GDP of 10 trillion.... guess which has bigger paying jobs? Giving money to the poor will not suddenly cause a surge to your GDP and an increase in wages, so you're really talking about 2 different subjects.

Thanks for telling the obvious Abraham. Of course if I were in their shoes I will do that too.

OrangeDragon wrote:What I feel would be ideal towards stimulating internal investment growth would be "mutual fund" type investment... where 300-400 middle class Khmer can each make a long term moderate/slow growth investment of a couple of thousand and in the end it's all put into 2 or 3 well planned small businesses. All done via a broker who watches the investments and establishes the payouts/etc. This would give people who can now partially afford them a long term retirement fund, as well as putting that money to a collective use to further develop the economy. Now that they have a stock exchange if they learn how it works and get businesses actually using it this sort of thing would be possible.

Tell that to the current ruling party leaders whom has more than 2 Phd. Your imaginary world is starkly different than the Barbie Girl's world.

OrangeDragon wrote:That might seem like it's leaving out the lower class again, but those businesses it's invested in create jobs... and each time a job is filled it creates more jobs (because working people have money to spend, so people need to make the things they want to buy). each time one of THOSE jobs is filled it creates more jobs... and so on. The lower class then have more opportunity for jobs and to pull themselves up from the lower status.

I think you are talking the honest bar owners who got drunk themselves instead of the customers. New businesses mean job creation. The Dutch and the German are not that stupid. How else they can get lay with the room cleaners.
You are currently living in Kompong Soam right? There is a Chinese port, not far away from SHV port taking precious natural resources from Cambodia tax-free!