Tuk Tuks and MFIs

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AlonzoPartriz
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Re: Tuk Tuks and MFIs

Post by AlonzoPartriz »

Sorry it's taken a while to get back to you KS, I was going to reply yesterday morning, but I had a little bit if trouble from a troll. Note to self - remember not to engage trolls.


Kampong Spooner wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:32 pm Hard to raise money on $250 a month government pay check. But loyalty goes a little way.
Loyalty to the ruling party you mean? It shouldn't really be that hard to borrow $2000 of the three year annual total on that amount from a bank at 6% or 7% pa, even less nowadays, over three years in a place like Cambodia to my mind. That's the rate Vietnam charges from virtually the only source of MFI loans - the government ( see above report). That's what I would do in the UK, and I wouldn't need a land title to do it. Just a good credit history. I may eventually lose any assets i had throgh a long drawn out series of court cases even if a title wasn't asked for as collateral.
An idiot relative owes a shit load, to mfi and various loansharks. All she's got is snotty phone calls for a year. A case of can't pay, won't pay. So far she still had her land.
That confirms what has been said in the last report that I posted here. People taking out loans which they're​ struggling to repay. Then taking out another loan with a local loanshark at an even higher interest rate to pay back the original loan because they're frightened their land will be repossessed. Then taking another MFI loan out to pay the loan shark. Then taking yet another loan out from a loan shark to pay back that loan. Talk about robbing Peter to pay Paul. But when you risk losing everything it's surely a catch 22? Idiot? Or uneducated and desperate? Lotteries always make me laugh, but their biggest source of revenue is from the poor lower educated people. And that's universal.

Incidentally, Mong Reththy has just recently started a lottery on his Wing network. More alarm bells. As Wing is a very popular way for borrowers to pay back their loans. Nothing was mentioned about how mobile banking has reduced the costs of MFIs considerably in the recent statements from them in reports about interest caps from the NBC.
Another guy I know is a wealthy loaner, who is very high up in government. His wife (obviously, who is good at business and that sort of thing) will only lend to those who are deemed good enough to pay back, because even with his influence, from what he says, repo is a massive ballache, even with less than sc than scrupulous courts, it takes time and money to get the collateral back, and even then, what do you do with a few hectares of swamp
This is what the PM said this year about repossessions:

"Prime Minister HE has ordered local authorities not to get involved in cases where microfinance institutions (MFIs) moved to repossess property over loan defaults.
Mr. HE issued the order at a cabinet meeting on Friday.

He said his order applied to authorities at all levels in the capital, provinces, cities, disticts and villages.
“Civil servants, police and the military should stop accompanying officials from MFIs,” he added.

“Such practises confuse people into thinking that microfiance institutions are owned by the state, when they belong entirely to the private sector.”
Mr. HE said MFI officials must wear a T-shirt with the words, “Microfinance is a private institution”.

“We do not want to see our people hurt and bear burdens resulting from the loans they cannot pay back to the MFIs,” he added.
“We must take action now. I have learned that some families borrow money from two or three microfinance institutions and some cannot pay them back.”.

http://www.khmertimeskh.com/news/35604/ ... ials-told/"

Also, what's swamp to you, maybe rich rice land to someone that's all they've got, or to a developer who buys the packaged land from MFIs in larger plots (see below)
Don't forget face. I bought a cow off a cousin who needed to pay back his arrears. Whilst that might prove your point to some degree, it also shows that most will try to pay before getting into massive debts. (BTW he ripped me off, $900 for a pregnant cow. It wasn't pregnant, so $6-700 real value, bastard)
Yes, as it says in the above full reports I posted, people sell off everything they own, or pawn it, before they chance losing their land which is their livelihood. Which is normally family grown rice along with the extra $1 or $2 a day we hear so much about in poverty reports here.. That to my mind just makes the whole situation worse. No land, no income, and no moto etc, and I wouldn't be surprised if they still owe money. Which is probably why a percentage of them end up in prison after losing the lot.
As far as 10-15% of land loss, care to show where those numbers came from?
"Third, almost right from the start in Cambodia, its microcredit institutions were unwilling to advance a microloan without some form of physical collateral, typically land. Many poor individuals and families handed over their land certificate to a microcredit institution as collateral, but then lost it later on when their microenterprise went sour and they were unable to repay their microloan.

The inevitable result has been the gradual dispossession of land from the poor, many of whom were forced to migrate. Their land ended up in the hands of the microcredit institutions and then, usually for a large profit, passed on to plantation farmers, developers and other well-connected people and institutions. Estimates vary as to how significant this process has been—and few people wish to talk about it—but some knowledgeable analysts have said that as much as 10 to 15 percent of Cambodia’s land once owned by the poor has been lost in this way.

http://gocambodia.info/opinion-microcre ... wn-making/
Spoiler:
BY CAMBODIA DAILY - 2 MONTHS AGO NEWS

Milford Bateman is a visiting professor of economics at Juraj Do- brila University of Pula, Croatia; adjunct professor of development studies at Saint Mary’s University in Canada; and author of “Why Doesn’t Microfinance Work? The Destructive Rise of Local Neoliberalism.”
In the early 1990s, the microcredit model pioneered in Bangladesh by Dr. Muhammad Yunus came to Cambodia.

Today, Cambodia possesses one of the world’s largest and most profitable microcredit sectors. Recently, however, it has faced serious criticism for high levels of individual over-indebtedness, steep interest rates and high profits made by the largest microcredit institutions, many of which are now owned by foreign investment houses and commercial banks.


Indeed, thanks to the extent of over-indebtedness and microcredit (also known as micro- finance) market saturation, fears are growing that there may be a repeat in Cambodia of the disastrous “microcredit meltdown” that took place in Andhra Pradesh state in India in 2010.

There is therefore an urgent need for the Cambodian government to do something. Various measures have indeed been taken of late, notably the imposition of an interest rate cap of 18 percent on all new microloans. But it is also useful if we first come clean about what has gone wrong, why, and who is mainly responsible.

There are several fundamental flaws inherent to the basic micro- credit model. The first problem starts from the fact that Cambodia’s communities have for many years been pretty well served by the informal microenterprise sector. Most things the rural poor need to survive, they can very easily access—if they have the cash to do so.

Yet microcredit is supposed to work by encouraging many more of the poor to get into the business of supplying simple items and services to their neighbors, even if their neighbors don’t have any extra cash with which to purchase these additional items and services. The inevitable result is that new microenterprises mainly end up taking clients and demand away from existing, al- ready struggling microenterprises in a process that economists term “displacement.”

Importantly, because any additional jobs created in one new microenterprise are generally matched by employees dismissed in other microenterprises, the net number of jobs created in the community over the longer-term is typically much less than predicted.

Furthermore, even when some additional jobs are created, the added competition that results puts immediate downward pressure on local prices, which means that both new and existing microenterprises will suffer from reduced profits and wages. Ultra-competitive “pure” local markets, which microcredit helps create, are generally always associated with self-employment profits and wages pushed down to the very bare minimum of survival.

A second, longer-term problem in Cambodia is that informal microenterprises simply do not drive forward sustainable development. The surface appearance of frenetic entrepreneurial activity, very often misreported as evidence of great dynamism and innovation, belies the fact that informal microenterprises do not stimulate growth and development in the local economy. Very few informal microenterprises typically graduate into formal small or medium-sized enterprises (SMEs). Above all, the problem is that Cambodia’s scarce financial resources have been wasted on creating many more “here today, but gone tomorrow” informal microenterprises, while far more productive and development-enhancing formal SMEs have historically been ignored since they are too risky and cannot pay high interest rates. This adverse form of financial intermediation has driven many local economies in Cambodia into a poverty trap.

Third, almost right from the start in Cambodia, its microcredit institutions were unwilling to advance a microloan without some form of physical collateral, typically land. Many poor individuals and families handed over their land certificate to a microcredit institution as collateral, but then lost it later on when their microenterprise went sour and they were unable to repay their microloan.

The inevitable result has been the gradual dispossession of land from the poor, many of whom were forced to migrate. Their land ended up in the hands of the microcredit institutions and then, usually for a large profit, passed on to plantation farmers, developers and other well-connected people and institutions. Estimates vary as to how significant this process has been—and few people wish to talk about it—but some knowledgeable analysts have said that as much as 10 to 15 percent of Cambodia’s land once owned by the poor has been lost in this way.

The long-term consequences of this process simply cannot be overstated. Landlessness is often seen by economists as the defining feature of a household that has plunged into irretrievable poverty. If we recall that Dr. Yunus’s famous Grameen Bank in Bangladesh was founded as an institution primarily to help the very poorest—its landless—it is disturbing to find that the micro- credit sector in Cambodia is help- ing drive its poor into landlessness.

The sour reality is that Cambodia’s microcredit sector has largely frustrated the effort to address poverty. Cramming more and more informal microenterprises into the local economy as a way of “resolving poverty” is simply economic nonsense.

Even worse, Cambodia’s largest micro- credit institutions have evolved from their nongovernmental roots into Wall Street-style institutional structures. And just like on Wall Street, the reckless lending strategies that were adopted in Cambodia to pursue this narrow goal have created the situation today where the entire financial system is in jeopardy.

What the Cambodian government does now remains to be seen. But it is to be hoped that any action will be based on the need to establish a local financial system that is genuinely assisting Cambodia’s poor to escape their plight, and not simply pretending to.

© 2017, The Cambodia Daily. All rights reserved. No part of this article may be reproduced in print, electronically, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without written permission.

The post Opinion: Microcredit Sector Hits Wall of Own Making appeared first on The Cambodia Daily.

Source: Cambodia Daily – Opinion: Microcredit Sector Hits Wall of Own Making​
This is 100% information from the horse's mouth. None of the fucker are happy about paying back, but they understand the risks, which from my view don't seem 'that' bad, given the world of payday loans and other nefarious going on from a civilized place where we're from
.

I very much appreciate your honesty and candour. I guess the situation in Kampot is a little better than some of the remote areas of the country. It does have tourist money coming in which would allow for a better local economy through the development and jobs it offers etc. As far as not seeming that bad, maybe not to the families you know about, but to be honest when 10 to 15% of poor people's land has been lost to debt via MFI/O NGOs and now big banks, I would have to contest those last remarks.
Never a lender nor borrower be tbh
.

I think that's the right answer, unless it's state run such as in Vietnam and Europe, but when your wife or kids are sick or injured, or you've lost your entire crop to flood, and you don't have savings to cover their costs, there's not much option apart from letting them die or borrowing and a few other unsavoury options like leaving family and yourself at increased risk by migrating for work ( re the recent reports of returner migrant workers from Thailand) or even worse options. Imagine having to sell your own daughter into prostitution. Some of the luckier ones end up in PP as tuk tuk drivers (generally the good ones) they encamp their families on the outskirts of the city.

Where most of the investors come from, they have state insured health care and subsidised farming. And also a social security net.

Over 50% of MFI loans to middle income poor, and 20% of MFI loans to upper income poor are taken out due to sickness, injury and flood here.

Financial literacy rates here are the lowesr in 30 countries, such as Vietnam. Awareness of financial packages are the highest.

I would hope people can see that usurous rates of interest at such times, while maybe being normal for freemarkets, should not be run on "a better life for the poor" campaigns run by NGOs (and funded in part from institutions such as the UN and World Bank) who go into villagers and declare " We're here to help".
Last edited by AlonzoPartriz on Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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vladimir
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Re: Tuk Tuks and MFIs

Post by vladimir »

AlonzoPartriz wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:25 pm To be honest, he seemed to be asking the general question of " Why are there socialists in the world mummy?"
There's no real way of answering that if a grown man still hasn't worked it out.
It's typical of a very interesting expat phenomenon here.

Expats from UK/US/EU wherever cannot survive at home, usually because of conservative/neocon govts who have persuaded doofuses who will listen that the real drain on the economy is not the $1 billion a day spent on warmongering for corporations/Israel, but social sup[port systems, education, and healthcare.

So they leave their home town, arrive in Cambodia, get a decent job, forget why they had to come here, and suddenly turn into yapping Conservatives.

I personally think it's the social climbing anal instinct..ooh, now I have money, perhaps the boys will let me into the club.

Sad.
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