giblet wrote:For what it's worth, as a female poster on many forums (with a gender neutral nick and photo) I have found that once it's clear I'm a female, I get much more attention, some creepy but mostly positive. But it cuts both ways. Long before this discussion I remember thinking that Joon had an adversarial/aggressive posting style. Then I took a step back and asked myself if I would have thought the same thing she was a man. And I think I wouldn't have--what I interpreted as aggressive because I knew she was female I probably would have seen as assertive if she was male. I think we are often unaware of how much perceived gender influences our judgement of things, even for those of us who do try and pay attention to it. I know that I felt a real change in how people treated me on the other forum once they realized I'm a chick(en).

Insightful post ---- and I am not saying this because you are a female or a chicken or a part of a chicken.

And yes it does cut both ways.

Rain Dog wrote:

giblet wrote:For what it's worth, as a female poster on many forums (with a gender neutral nick and photo) I have found that once it's clear I'm a female, I get much more attention, some creepy but mostly positive. But it cuts both ways. Long before this discussion I remember thinking that Joon had an adversarial/aggressive posting style. Then I took a step back and asked myself if I would have thought the same thing she was a man. And I think I wouldn't have--what I interpreted as aggressive because I knew she was female I probably would have seen as assertive if she was male. I think we are often unaware of how much perceived gender influences our judgement of things, even for those of us who do try and pay attention to it. I know that I felt a real change in how people treated me on the other forum once they realized I'm a chick(en).

Insightful post ---- and I am not saying this because you are a female or a chicken or a part of a chicken.

And yes it does cut both ways.

I've read studies stating that giblet's mentality is a common one: assertive women are perceived negatively, whilst assertive men are perceived positively. However, I always thought that this mentality was far more common in men than women; I'm intrigued that a well-educated western woman, giblet experiences the same thing.

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I should add a caveat to my recent posts in this thread.

1- I skipped several pages of back and forth between Joon and others.
2- I haven't read the solo ladies thread RD quoted.

The opinions I expressed are general and not 100% fully informed.
To summarise: I like Joon, I don't consider her to be infallible and I don't consider ad hominym details when reading someone's argument.

ali baba wrote:I should add a caveat to my recent posts in this thread.

1- I skipped several pages of back and forth between Joon and others.

It basically went like this:

- Joon is an irrational K440 apologist
- K440 apologists are bad
- HOLD THE PRESSES! Is Joon really a woman?
- women are good
- hence Joon is good

That about sums it up.

FreeSocrates! wrote:

ali baba wrote:I should add a caveat to my recent posts in this thread.

1- I skipped several pages of back and forth between Joon and others.

It basically went like this:

- Joon is an irrational K440 apologist
- K440 apologists are bad
- HOLD THE PRESSES! Is Joon really a woman?
- women are good
- hence Joon is good

That about sums it up.

the last three are a bit off... it was a thumbs up for her posting well in a second language, woman or not, by tim linkwhatever that started this whole STOP TREATING WOMEN NICER thing.

Rain Dog wrote:

OrangeDragon wrote:

Rain Dog wrote: Joon is a decent poster but I agree with Soi Dog ----- is there any male poster on this board receiving so many accolades for their posting style?

Not at all, if you read back you'll see that a number of us (myself included) are actually arguing with her. And if there were a male poster posting here as clearly in their 2nd or 3rd language i'd absolutely praise them for it.

No need to read back as I have been participating in it. I was actually arguing with her as well and told her I thought she was "talking through both sides of her mouth" on her bashing of people here for bashing k440 on this thread. Nothing personal on my end -- just usual forum stuff. I have agreed with her on other threads but not here.

She seemed to be taking it a bit personally and getting a bit frustrated that some people were criticizing her as a k440 apologist and when LTO highlighted she was "female" (by questioning that aspect) some other posters then came to her defense with comments like "hang in there". Have you ever seen this for a male poster before?

[...]

Soi Dog; however, rightly called this weird patronizing phenomenon and and got called a "misogynist" for his efforts. Joon doubled down on that accusation and that part I do find a bit disappointing.

For someone who was participating... you got the sequence of events backwards as well... people we doing the "hang in there" posts before LTO asked. Selective memory? Then the only ones after that was Soi Dog attacking everyone for patronizing her because she was a chick (which they weren't... at least I wasn't), and people responding that it's NOT why they were doing it. As for "have you ever seen this for a male poster?" yes... I have. I've had people say it supporting my posts on 440 when being harassed by some of "The Club" in various ways (including the thread where I was banned) and I've seen it done for others. Hell, people were doing it in HERE for Andy well before they were doing it for Joon in fact. You just skim those parts?

FreeSocrates! wrote:

ali baba wrote:I should add a caveat to my recent posts in this thread.

1- I skipped several pages of back and forth between Joon and others.

It basically went like this:

- Joon is an irrational K440 apologist
- K440 apologists are bad
- HOLD THE PRESSES! Is Joon really a woman?
- women are good
- hence Joon is good

That about sums it up.

Lol. And there was some uncalled for and baseless smearing of SD, which wasn't retracted or apologized for. Now I'm confused as to whether that was actually worse than the 440 members blanket smearing that all the recent debate / apologist spin doctoring was about? I thought the 440 guy should have named who he was talking about. But having seen naming and smearing in action, I didn't like it. Maybe the 440 guy was correct in his method of baseless smearing. Who would have thought baseless smearing would be so complicated!

In retrospect, most of the K440 members that post on both forums are actually quite nice, Joon included.

OrangeDragon wrote: the last three are a bit off... it was a thumbs up for her posting well in a second language, woman or not,.

Yes. It was a complete coincidence that all the comments came after her gender was revealed , despite that we knew Joon wasn't a native english speaker previously. And simply a fluke that non native english speaking males on all the various Asian expat forums don't get the same thumbs up.

Ali Baba cracks me up.

He finds out she's a female and now instantly makes a thread confessing his love for her!!!

Did he love her this whole time, but thought that it was a 'him'?

And wants to swing with her and her husband. (not that there is anything wrong with that)

CEO - The Place for Cambodia's Swinging Expats!

FreeSocrates! wrote:In retrospect, most of the K440 members that post on both forums are actually quite nice, Joon included.

We certainly are.