ot mien kampf wrote:Knew it would be a Swede. Well, actually I was expecting some weedy New York Jewish communist wannabe. Now similar airheads are destroying Sweden itself with immigration.

Everyone with two braincells to rub together knew that there would be brutal, genocidal repression to "stop a counter revolution" because that was exactly what happened in Russia and China. Anyone who claimed ignorance in hindsight is too dumb to live.

with hopes of debunking the horror stories as CIA propaganda

Blinded by their own white guilt. They seem to think the only people who have ever done anything wrong were white capitalists. Unfortunately scum like this still rules the world.

We defended the evacuation of the cities with the arguments that the Khmer Rouge had given us

Pity this piece of shit didn't get ended then and there.

I'm guessing you support the murders of over 1,000,000 supposed communists in Indonesia by your above statement? At least Cambodia didn't kill that many people in just a year.

I'm not excusing Pol Pot for sure, just saying capitalism or the status quo, whatever you want to call it, has been just as nasty and brutal. Perhaps even more so. In that movie The Act of Killing you will note the part where the right-wing, pro-capitalist militias have a young mother who they are torturing by cutting the arms and legs off her live baby. Those Indonesian excesses were not communist, they were backed by America and Britain etc.

If you hate the inherent idea of communism, fairness for everyone, then in my book you hate the idea of justice.

Good point. I don't care if they were left-wing or right-wing, they are all capable of justifying murder on a vast scale if they feel it suits their purpose. In Indonesia they never faced any type of justice, in many cases they were promoted.

juansweetpotato wrote: If you hate the inherent idea of communism, fairness for everyone, then in my book you hate the idea of justice.

Find me a single place where the reality of putting into effect that idea of communism has been successful in bringing about "fairness for everyone" and not left the vast majority of subjected citizens in dire poverty and desperation, and then we'll compare that data to the evidence of how many hundreds of millions of people have worked themselves out of poverty under rather recent changes to capitalist policies in China alone. Theories are fine for armchair philosophers and pampered academics who have no skin in the game. It's only the real-world, proven results that matter.

juansweetpotato wrote:

ot mien kampf wrote:Knew it would be a Swede. Well, actually I was expecting some weedy New York Jewish communist wannabe. Now similar airheads are destroying Sweden itself with immigration.

Everyone with two braincells to rub together knew that there would be brutal, genocidal repression to "stop a counter revolution" because that was exactly what happened in Russia and China. Anyone who claimed ignorance in hindsight is too dumb to live.

with hopes of debunking the horror stories as CIA propaganda

Blinded by their own white guilt. They seem to think the only people who have ever done anything wrong were white capitalists. Unfortunately scum like this still rules the world.

We defended the evacuation of the cities with the arguments that the Khmer Rouge had given us

Pity this piece of shit didn't get ended then and there.

I'm guessing you support the murders of over 1,000,000 supposed communists in Indonesia by your above statement? At least Cambodia didn't kill that many people in just a year.

I'm not excusing Pol Pot for sure, just saying capitalism or the status quo, whatever you want to call it, has been just as nasty and brutal. Perhaps even more so. In that movie The Act of Killing you will note the part where the right-wing, pro-capitalist militias have a young mother who they are torturing by cutting the arms and legs of her live baby. Those Indonesian excesses were not communist, they were backed by America and Britain etc.

If you hate the inherent idea of communism, fairness for everyone, then in my book you hate the idea of justice.

I hate the idea of communism because it has in practice ALWAYS resulted in mass murder of dissenters. It declares rival opinions to be inherently unacceptable and violently represses them. Capitalism has worked with democracy and socialism in places like Sweden to form the welfare state. The Indonesia story was an anomaly in capitalist societies, the Khmer Rouge was just a typical example of communism in action.

Also, the idea of abolishing private ownership is so ridiculously idealistic and opposed to human nature that isn't it isn't worth even considering.

Rutiger wrote:

juansweetpotato wrote: If you hate the inherent idea of communism, fairness for everyone, then in my book you hate the idea of justice.

Find me a single place where the reality of putting into effect that idea of communism has been successful in bringing about "fairness for everyone" and not left the vast majority of subjected citizens in dire poverty and desperation, and then we'll compare that data to the evidence of how many hundreds of millions of people have worked themselves out of poverty under rather recent changes to capitalist policies in China alone. Theories are fine for armchair philosophers and pampered academics who have no skin in the game. It's only the real-world, proven results that matter.

Firstly,you misunderstood my post. I am not saying Communism works, by all indications it doesn't . I don't really know as I wasn't brought up under it. I doknow that it supplied health and education for free to it's citizens. Also free milk for school aged children etc. The capitalist system not based on socialism I don't really know about. I have heard differing stories about help for poor people in the US.

However, I do know that if it weren't for the continuous terrible abuses of the status quo , even before capitalism (think gold miners/ conquistadors etc), but especially under industrialized capitalism. Then communism would never have be born as an idea.

Brilliant theory, wrong species.

E O Wilson.

So where does that leave us?

ot mien kampf wrote:

juansweetpotato wrote:

ot mien kampf wrote:Knew it would be a Swede. Well, actually I was expecting some weedy New York Jewish communist wannabe. Now similar airheads are destroying Sweden itself with immigration.

Everyone with two braincells to rub together knew that there would be brutal, genocidal repression to "stop a counter revolution" because that was exactly what happened in Russia and China. Anyone who claimed ignorance in hindsight is too dumb to live.

with hopes of debunking the horror stories as CIA propaganda

Blinded by their own white guilt. They seem to think the only people who have ever done anything wrong were white capitalists. Unfortunately scum like this still rules the world.

We defended the evacuation of the cities with the arguments that the Khmer Rouge had given us

Pity this piece of shit didn't get ended then and there.

I'm guessing you support the murders of over 1,000,000 supposed communists in Indonesia by your above statement? At least Cambodia didn't kill that many people in just a year.

I'm not excusing Pol Pot for sure, just saying capitalism or the status quo, whatever you want to call it, has been just as nasty and brutal. Perhaps even more so. In that movie The Act of Killing you will note the part where the right-wing, pro-capitalist militias have a young mother who they are torturing by cutting the arms and legs of her live baby. Those Indonesian excesses were not communist, they were backed by America and Britain etc.

If you hate the inherent idea of communism, fairness for everyone, then in my book you hate the idea of justice.

I hate the idea of communism because it has in practice ALWAYS resulted in mass murder of dissenters. It declares rival opinions to be inherently unacceptable and violently represses them.

Please And after what I wrote above! I could add a whole list of capitalist slaughterers but I'm sure you know who they are already. Unlike my self and seemingly Bingham, you don't seem to realize they are all as bad as each other at the top.

Capitalism has worked with democracy and socialism in places like Sweden to form the welfare state. The Indonesia story was an anomaly in capitalist societies, the Khmer Rouge was just a typical example of communism in action.

Nothing typical about the Khmer Rouges. Nothing much socialist about it too. Was Hitler a socialist on anything but paper? No, Pol Pot and his regime were typical fascists using Marxist Leninism to forward their total power dreams. Just like Sihanouk, Lon Nol, HE and Sam the man, Saloth Sar wanted to be a Khmer god-king.

In Vietnam a small Chinese contingent was sent down to help with the crossover, but they started pulling the same shit as they did in China and Ho managed to curb most of the excesses and send them packing. All with his usual aplomb. They did re-educate a lot though, but in the end they just thought it better to let them leave on their own accord. Get rid of them so to speak. Now they are flooding back to make money and pricing their poorer countrymen out of the market of course. Viet Q.

If you knew your history you would know that Britain was completely broke after the second world war. Churchill went to see the US president to ask for a loan. The US refused largely on the grounds that Britain was socialist. It wasn't until the red peril became a real threat that they decided to help out with the Marshall plan. One of the conditions was that Britain had to concede the pound to the dollar in world prices for oil etc.

juansweetpotato wrote:.....

^ Good lord, you went way off topic and started spouting unrelated trivia. Not sure how any of that last bit clarifies any point you or anyone is trying to make on any subject here. If you are saying capitalism and communism are equally bad economic systems in practice, then history doesn't remotely backup that opinion. We'll see how high tax-and-spend democratic socialist governments fare in the long run. Many things work effectively for a short duration, only to have the wheels come off a generation or two down the line leaving people both without much personal savings AND eventually without all the promised government support.

Rutiger wrote:

juansweetpotato wrote:.....

^ Good lord, you went way off topic and started spouting unrelated trivia. Not sure how any of that last bit clarifies any point you or anyone is trying to make on any subject here. If you are saying capitalism and communism are equally bad economic systems in practice, then history doesn't remotely backup that opinion.

They are both inherently corrupt because they are human. Why don't you give examples of myself going off topic rather than post .... then maybe I can answer you as to what I'm trying to say.

juansweetpotato wrote:

Rutiger wrote:

juansweetpotato wrote:.....

^ Good lord, you went way off topic and started spouting unrelated trivia. Not sure how any of that last bit clarifies any point you or anyone is trying to make on any subject here. If you are saying capitalism and communism are equally bad economic systems in practice, then history doesn't remotely backup that opinion.

They are both inherently corrupt because they are human. Why don't you give examples of myself going off topic rather than post .... then maybe I can answer you as to what I'm trying to say.

I don't get how your take on the Bretton Woods agreement has to do with the topic at hand. Seems like a deliberate diversion to me.

Rutiger wrote:

juansweetpotato wrote:

Rutiger wrote:

juansweetpotato wrote:.....

^ Good lord, you went way off topic and started spouting unrelated trivia. Not sure how any of that last bit clarifies any point you or anyone is trying to make on any subject here. If you are saying capitalism and communism are equally bad economic systems in practice, then history doesn't remotely backup that opinion.

They are both inherently corrupt because they are human. Why don't you give examples of myself going off topic rather than post .... then maybe I can answer you as to what I'm trying to say.

I don't get how your take on the Bretton Woods agreement has to do with the topic at hand. Seems like a deliberate diversion to me.

Ah, I thought that may have been it. The pound to dollar commodity thing was just a bit of trivia added because I was talking about that agreement.

My point in posting it were to Ot Mien Kampf's

Capitalism has worked with democracy and socialism in places like Sweden to form the welfare state. The Indonesia story was an anomaly in capitalist societies, the Khmer Rouge was just a typical example of communism in action.

I was trying to say that the US capitalists didn't like those socialist countries much and using Britain as an example. What did America do with its communists? I have had a few Americans try to hit me because I have mentioned Socialism and America i the same sentence. It's also time for bed.

EDITED some of that post. Was very tired. I should just have said Chiang Kai-shek to your claim of an anomaly.

I agree I went off track somewhat.