Rain Dog wrote:

Garry.Crabtree wrote:I would Argue that Atheism is the biggest religion out there; and it's followers are the most aggressive and intolerant of all 'isms' when it comes to pushing their views on to others.

General Mackevili wrote:
LoL, very funny!

I'll say here what I wanted to say there.

Stroppy and Mrs Stroppy have both said they are missionaries, but are here to provide free education to the poor with no strings attached.

I've had the pleasure to meet them both, and in no way did they seem to have a secret agenda, or seen to have a "we are better then thou" attitude. They said they were Christians, and that was that. I've heard their loose plan here, and, IMHO, it didn't sound like it had a sinister/secret agenda at all.

I see no problems with Christians/missionaries going anywhere they like and helping out the community. That in itself is very Christian-like. And personally, I think that's the best way to get people interested in it. Leading by example, really. And how could I expect them not to practice and share their religion? I think it's a good setup they have.

And I also agree with Dagenham about Christians that prey on the poor and uneducated, and only offer help to heathens that repent. However, even Stroppy agrees with that, so that's not really worth discussing. That seems like a mean thing to accuse Stroppy of doing based ONLY on Dagenham's experience with previous Christians. He's kind of calling him a flat out liar by saying he MUST have ulterior motives when Stroppy is adamant that they don't.

So for me, I haven't seen any reasons to think he's doing anything wrong. Again, if being a Christian and moving to a poor country is something that's frowned upon, then I don't have much to say about it.

And for the record, since you cheekily alluded to it, I do not consider myself a Christian, or a member of any other religion.

I was raised as a 7th Day Adventist. And anyone who's studied the religion would almost certainly know my uncle, as he's written many widely published books about it. That has a lot to do with my thoughts on religion as a whole. Throughout his career I've seen him change his stance on some crucial issues. That makes me glad to see him still "studying and learning." However, it upsets me that each time he changes his stance, he's convinced he's definitely correct this time. It's ironic to me that Christianity requires so much faith, yet some people still to "prove" it correct. (Proving something wrong based on contradictions is another matter, and totally fine by me though.)

I've always said "if it wasn't for Christians I'd probably be one." LoL.

For me, religion should be a personal "choice" and something everyone should realize can't be proven.

I once started reading the Qur'an (yes, for fun) and I was shocked to realize I was practically reading the Bible, LoL. So, it's a fine line between many of them.

Another saying I think is interesting: God unites, religion divides.

So again, Dagenham had some good points, although seemed to go overboard, but based on my understanding of Stroppy's plans and after meeting him, I think he's doing a good thing. There would definitely be more interest in Christianity if more of them just went out and offered a helping hand across the globe to those less fortunate without strings attached.

Rain Dog wrote:

Joon wrote:He did. But I think he is more inclined towards "atheistic agnosticism". I label myself as a "theist agnostic" and we definitely don't share the same views.

Curious as to what "Theistic agnostic" means and how your views differ from dagenham's.

I always thought that "Atheistic Agnostic' was a bit of a cop out born out of our inherited age of empiricism mindset. Sort of like "anything is possible but unless you can "prove" it to me, it must be false" mentality. It is a very Safe (if somewhat hypocritical when criticizing others) position because you can always demand proof from others without adding anything yourself.

Rain Dog wrote:
I would Argue that Atheism is the biggest religion out there; and it's followers are the most aggressive and intolerant of all 'isms' when it comes to pushing their views on to others.

dagenham wrote:How can you possibly dismiss or ignore the following from the keyboard of Stroppy?:

"To get religious for just a moment, Christ gave us two new commandments - a) to go out into the whole world and preach His gospel, and b) to be good to others, especially those who have it harder than us, in the same way that He would be if He were physically here."

Well...why preach "His" gospel? For fun? To practice your speaking skills? For ambient noise? It has one singular purpose - conversion from another faith or none to the "Church of Christ" cult's program. So the program's generous point b) aint free after all - now is it?

Rain Dog wrote:

General Mackevili wrote:
LoL, very funny!

I'll say here what I wanted to say there.

Stroppy and Mrs Stroppy have both said they are missionaries, but are here to provide free education to the poor with no strings attached.

I've had the pleasure to meet them both, and in no way did they seem to have a secret agenda, or seen to have a "we are better then thou" attitude. They said they were Christians, and that was that. I've heard their loose plan here, and, IMHO, it didn't sound like it had a sinister/secret agenda at all.

I see no problems with Christians/missionaries going anywhere they like and helping out the community. That in itself is very Christian-like. And personally, I think that's the best way to get people interested in it. Leading by example, really. And how could I expect them not to practice and share their religion? I think it's a good setup they have.

And I also agree with Dagenham about Christians that prey on the poor and uneducated, and only offer help to heathens that repent. However, even Stroppy agrees with that, so that's not really worth discussing. That seems like a mean thing to accuse Stroppy of doing based ONLY on Dagenham's experience with previous Christians. He's kind of calling him a flat out liar by saying he MUST have ulterior motives when Stroppy is adamant that they don't.

So for me, I haven't seen any reasons to think he's doing anything wrong. Again, if being a Christian and moving to a poor country is something that's frowned upon, then I don't have much to say about it.

And for the record, since you cheekily alluded to it, I do not consider myself a Christian, or a member of any other religion.

I was raised as a 7th Day Adventist. And anyone who's studied the religion would almost certainly know my uncle, as he's written many widely published books about it. That has a lot to do with my thoughts on religion as a whole. Throughout his career I've seen him change his stance on some crucial issues. That makes me glad to see him still "studying and learning." However, it upsets me that each time he changes his stance, he's convinced he's definitely correct this time. It's ironic to me that Christianity requires so much faith, yet some people still to "prove" it correct. (Proving something wrong based on contradictions is another matter, and totally fine by me though.)

I've always said "if it wasn't for Christians I'd probably be one." LoL.

For me, religion should be a personal "choice" and something everyone should realize can't be proven.

I once started reading the Qur'an (yes, for fun) and I was shocked to realize I was practically reading the Bible, LoL. So, it's a fine line between many of them.

Another saying I think is interesting: God unites, religion divides.

So again, Dagenham had some good points, although seemed to go overboard, but based on my understanding of Stroppy's plans and after meeting him, I think he's doing a good thing. There would definitely be more interest in Christianity if more of them just went out and offered a helping hand across the globe to those less fortunate without strings attached.

Man -- I am taken aback by the quality of that post. I think I have under-estimated you. Cool.

Quran --- yea --- I lived in Indonesia a while and studied it. Muslim bashing is a multi-billion dollar industry these days so you never hear anything good about it. it is too bad --- you admittedly need to peel away all of the Arab Cultural imperialism aspects and literalistic Dogma to understand it but if you can get to it's core --- you basically wind up with a more rational and unifying form of Christianity without the trinity mystery and the idea of "Original Sin".

As to stroppy ---- never had the privilege to meet him. I do share Dagenham's skepticism but unlike Dag, I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt to an individual person unless there is evidence that proves otherwise. That said, I do consider "Warm Fuzzy on the outside but hidden agenda intolerant on the inside" Christian Evangelicals to be among the most despicable species of human predators roaming the earth. Thus I am somewhat sympathetic to Dag's position but I think he needs to depersonalize his argument to be effective.

7th Day adventist? Never would have guessed that one.

StroppyChops wrote:

dagenham wrote:How can you possibly dismiss or ignore the following from the keyboard of Stroppy?:

"To get religious for just a moment, Christ gave us two new commandments - a) to go out into the whole world and preach His gospel, and b) to be good to others, especially those who have it harder than us, in the same way that He would be if He were physically here."

Well...why preach "His" gospel? For fun? To practice your speaking skills? For ambient noise? It has one singular purpose - conversion from another faith or none to the "Church of Christ" cult's program. So the program's generous point b) aint free after all - now is it?

dages, you're being a little forum bitch and you know it - put that quote back in the context it was written in, or give it up. You have become sadly desperate in your ranting, and your old-man-hiding-in-the-third-world bitterness and bile is really tiring. I'll engage with your BS quite happily, but if you continue to misquote me in this amateurish and pathetic way, I'll start taking it personally. You want to reclaim some of the dignity you've recently handed off, stop misquoting. Get help, my friend, you truly need it. Your bitterness is ruining your life.

StroppyChops wrote:Personally I can 'do this' with you all day, dagenham, but the forum has spoken and relegated your diatribe (and my responses) off to the Asinine Area - for you to move your base into the next available thread is a childish move. Tell you what - I'll respond to you in the moved thread, and you try very hard to be a grown up and see if you can participate in the forum like the other grown ups. Get out of the sandpit, try for a conversation that doesn't keep regurgitating your "i hate Christians" manifesto, and for GODS SAKE CHEER UP, you miserable sack.

Mods, can we move these couple of posts over to the other thread? I'll do my bit to keep it over there.