dagenham wrote:a) It's impossible for intellect, rationality or scientific proof to even marginally effect a believer's faith. Period. Double Period. Convincing you of anything is entirely futile as "faith" will always be your trump card.

Oh, don't run and hide behind that old chestnut, you're better than that. Aren't you?

b) I'm well aware of the shared roots of Christianity and Judaism - there is no threat leveled at non-believers or Gentiles in the entire Jewish scriptures as there clearly is in the Christian bible. That is an undisputed fact amongst scholars and theologians. No real discussion there I'm afraid.

You are regurgitating the thoughts and arguments of others. To what scriptures do YOU and this legion of scholars refer? "I know it's in there because I read it once, but I can't find it now" is really not going to do it for you - you want to talk about science, then give your references.

Islam?

Well, no, I didn't include Islam because it is an entirely different animal from Judaism and Buddhism (who both do not arrogantly proselytize and cruelly desecrate native cultural practices out of the misguided goodness of their heartfelt "faith" - "faith" - that problematic word again - the self-righteous maniacal engine for all destructive religious actions)...it's intolerance and hunger for world domination make Islam every bit as sinister as Christianity. Of course, as we all know there have never been Christian missionaries actively trying to convert natives and destroy indigenous societies all over the globe throughout the history of the planet. Hmmm...

So let me just check that I'm hearing you correctly. You think that because you can use the word "faith" in sentences about two unrelated religions, you can tie those religions together and write them off for each others failings. And from this you would liken Islam and Christianity? That is the most ridiculous attempt at reductio ad absurdum I have yet seen.

StroppyChops wrote:

dagenham wrote:a) It's impossible for intellect, rationality or scientific proof to even marginally effect a believer's faith. Period. Double Period. Convincing you of anything is entirely futile as "faith" will always be your trump card.

Oh, don't run and hide behind that old chestnut, you're better than that. Aren't you?

b) I'm well aware of the shared roots of Christianity and Judaism - there is no threat leveled at non-believers or Gentiles in the entire Jewish scriptures as there clearly is in the Christian bible. That is an undisputed fact amongst scholars and theologians. No real discussion there I'm afraid.

You are regurgitating the thoughts and arguments of others. To what scriptures do YOU and this legion of scholars refer? "I know it's in there because I read it once, but I can't find it now" is really not going to do it for you - you want to talk about science, then give your references.

Islam?

Well, no, I didn't include Islam because it is an entirely different animal from Judaism and Buddhism (who both do not arrogantly proselytize and cruelly desecrate native cultural practices out of the misguided goodness of their heartfelt "faith" - "faith" - that problematic word again - the self-righteous maniacal engine for all destructive religious actions)...it's intolerance and hunger for world domination make Islam every bit as sinister as Christianity. Of course, as we all know there have never been Christian missionaries actively trying to convert natives and destroy indigenous societies all over the globe throughout the history of the planet. Hmmm...

So let me just check that I'm hearing you correctly. You think that because you can use the word "faith" in sentences about two unrelated religions, you can tie those religions together and write them off for each others failings. And from this you would liken Islam and Christianity? That is the most ridiculous attempt at reductio ad absurdum I have yet seen.

a) Now now...the real chestnut is the faith card being played. Really. Has any true believer been swayed by someone who doesn't share their belief?

b) Again, I've read the passages. I shall find them. So, the entire born-again Christian cult is bogus? Is that what you are asserting? There is no Judgement Day? No 2nd Coming? No accepting JC as the sole savior, son of God? There is no Satan? No threat of going to Hell? Really? Are we talking about some white-washed sanitized eco-green left-wing version of Christianity here? You're sprouting nonsense by denying these even exist in the bible...hmmm...

c) Reread that paragraph - I was only equating Islam with Christianity in regards to their shared blatantly-stated hunger and goal for world domination (through ceaseless highly destructive proselytizing). Of course, they're both faith-based as all religions are - "faith" is a red herring issue. Otherwise they are fundamentally different in myriad ways and I would have much more critical views about the practices of Islam (even in it's so-called vanilla version - not the draconian Sharia law) than Christianity in general.

Although as we both well know a Christian aint a Christian aint a Christian. And you, apparently have cobbled together your own version - leaving out all the dramatic juicy bits - like hell damnation, etc.

Hugh Briss wrote:A rhetorical question. So that means I don't have to answer.......whewwwww.

Glad you got that off your chest though buddy.

I think he was getting it off of someone else's chest...

I would be almost willing to listen to Christian nutters if their minsters were not so pussified over criticising consumerism and rampant capitalism. Wall St. owns their pussy arses.

dagenham wrote:b) Again, I've read the passages. I shall find them.

I look forward to discussing them with you when you find them.

So, the entire born-again Christian cult is bogus? Is that what you are asserting? There is no Judgement Day? No 2nd Coming? No accepting JC as the sole savior, son of God? There is no Satan? No threat of going to Hell? Really? Are we talking about some white-washed sanitized eco-green left-wing version of Christianity here? You're sprouting nonsense by denying these even exist in the bible...hmmm... <some other ranting> ... Although as we both well know a Christian aint a Christian aint a Christian. And you, apparently have cobbled together your own version - leaving out all the dramatic juicy bits - like hell damnation, etc.

You're very good. Possibly one of the best trolls I've seen. Kudos - it took me a while to realise you were trolling, although I did work it out a few posts back and thought I'd use the platform anyway. Hey, it's Sunday, thanks for the opportunity to get the Sunday Sermon out there! There's not a single point in your rant above that has come from me, and what you have done is very effectively deflect from the points in our discussion that you haven't liked. It (your rant above) is all you, buddy, and it seems to me that the points you raise bother you more than you'll admit. Happy to discuss further with you over a beer.

Reasoned and interesting stuff, Stroppy.

You and ole Moody Mac shine a very positive light on your faith.

Tim Linkinwater wrote:Reasoned and interesting stuff, Stroppy.

You and ole Moody Mac shine a very positive light on your faith.

Thank you Tim, that's kind of you to say.

I dont know about you guys...but the newbies with a few posts with positive comments, in other word a lucker are Mormons.

flying chicken wrote:I dont know about you guys...but the newbies with a few posts with positive comments, in other word a lucker are Mormons.

Hey, this is the nice forum. I'm usually a cunt - it's gratifying to have a second personality.

Anyway, Chicken, when are you coming to Phnom Penh?

(Sorry to derail, but Dag is talking shite as usual anyway).