neuropathic wrote: All of these expenses, of course, could easily be met by a mining tax, but oh no, those LNP cunce have scuttled that because Gina and co blackmailed them into doing so.

Just catching up on a few threads.

Really something I want to block out rather than think about to be honest...Bit of a ramble here, just typing as it comes out.



Firstly, unless one has spent considerable time in communities best to say nothing or your ignorance will be exposed (SC I know you have).

I've spent years in communities and visited some in WA, NT and SA. Gotta say the WA ones were the most functional that I saw. Even had glass windows instead of perspex. Then again, I wasn't there for long.

My initial reaction is that if anyone can find a community that is functional with solid governance and a robust commitment to proper education for kids, job creation for adults, zero alcohol/drug/substance abuse tolerance and proper law enforcement to weed out violence, child sex offenders, and damn thieves, then roll it out as a model to be copied. Might add a commitment to basic hygiene and caring for children's health too.

Well, there is nothing that I've ever seen that gives me the slightest notion that the above would be possible. There were 3 pillars that stood out, football, traditional business and welfare money. You could argue the merits of each, but until the others take priority nothing will ever change. Even if there was a 'model' community somewhere the inter-tribal feuds would be insurmountable so nothing would change.

I've met Tony Abbott and if he doesn't understand the issues he's without excuse. In all honesty, I've never in my life seen so much taxpayer money bucketed on such pointless causes and on such undeserving recipients, that might sound harsh,but it is the reality on the ground. I know too many that have houses in settlements and also houses in their homelands, all funded by taxpayers. Then there are the white elephants that have been built only to never serve their purpose, gross mismanagement of funds by administrators and outright fraud. I've even seen a tiny 'one family' community that had managed to get a school built and staffed for their 12 kids, only to see them spend inordinate lengths of time away due to family business, traditional business, football or whatever, leaving the two teachers twiddling their thumbs. This same place had the largest unspent budget of any school in the region, just fucking madness.

Never in my life have I met such dysfunctional, hopeless people - I saw things that totally shocked me and ultimately changed my opinion/outlook on what may be best for these communities. The only thing I saw in their culture that deserves any praise at all is the sense of family. However, that gets nullified by the useless waste of space family members who dedicate their lives to living parasitically off their more capable siblings etc and just compounds everybody's misery.

By the way, I'm talking very remote communities - the sorts of places that see very few Whiteys and at least when I was around, you needed a permit to enter many of them.

If the government mandate is to continue pouring money into these places then nothing will change, because that is what they've been doing for the last 40 years.

On the flip side of things, bringing feudal families together to live in remote communities as neighbours has been an abject failure. Unless you've spent some time in these places you've no idea of the rate of violence, and also how quickly it can escalate requiring schools, community stores and admin offices to go into lock-down mode.

My conclusion was/is that there is no answer for the problems in these places. There were a few who seemed to cope better than others, particularly those who were inclined to go to church oriented stuff but that cannot be said for many.

I'd suggest that if taxpayers had any idea what really goes on in these places they'd not be too pleased. The whole thing just gets glossed over with nice words and good intentions and a few myths thrown in, and that has been masking the cesspit for decades.

Joker Poker wrote:Just catching up on a few threads.

Really something I want to block out rather than think about to be honest...Bit of a ramble here, just typing as it comes out.



Firstly, unless one has spent considerable time in communities best to say nothing or your ignorance will be exposed (SC I know you have).

I've spent years in communities and visited some in WA, NT and SA. Gotta say the WA ones were the most functional that I saw. Even had glass windows instead of perspex. Then again, I wasn't there for long.

My initial reaction is that if anyone can find a community that is functional with solid governance and a robust commitment to proper education for kids, job creation for adults, zero alcohol/drug/substance abuse tolerance and proper law enforcement to weed out violence, child sex offenders, and damn thieves, then roll it out as a model to be copied. Might add a commitment to basic hygiene and caring for children's health too.

Well, there is nothing that I've ever seen that gives me the slightest notion that the above would be possible. There were 3 pillars that stood out, football, traditional business and welfare money. You could argue the merits of each, but until the others take priority nothing will ever change. Even if there was a 'model' community somewhere the inter-tribal feuds would be insurmountable so nothing would change.

I've met Tony Abbott and if he doesn't understand the issues he's without excuse. In all honesty, I've never in my life seen so much taxpayer money bucketed on such pointless causes and on such undeserving recipients, that might sound harsh,but it is the reality on the ground. I know too many that have houses in settlements and also houses in their homelands, all funded by taxpayers. Then there are the white elephants that have been built only to never serve their purpose, gross mismanagement of funds by administrators and outright fraud. I've even seen a tiny 'one family' community that had managed to get a school built and staffed for their 12 kids, only to see them spend inordinate lengths of time away due to family business, traditional business, football or whatever, leaving the two teachers twiddling their thumbs. This same place had the largest unspent budget of any school in the region, just fucking madness.

Never in my life have I met such dysfunctional, hopeless people - I saw things that totally shocked me and ultimately changed my opinion/outlook on what may be best for these communities. The only thing I saw in their culture that deserves any praise at all is the sense of family. However, that gets nullified by the useless waste of space family members who dedicate their lives to living parasitically off their more capable siblings etc and just compounds everybody's misery.

By the way, I'm talking very remote communities - the sorts of places that see very few Whiteys and at least when I was around, you needed a permit to enter many of them.

If the government mandate is to continue pouring money into these places then nothing will change, because that is what they've been doing for the last 40 years.

On the flip side of things, bringing feudal families together to live in remote communities as neighbours has been an abject failure. Unless you've spent some time in these places you've no idea of the rate of violence, and also how quickly it can escalate requiring schools, community stores and admin offices to go into lock-down mode.

My conclusion was/is that there is no answer for the problems in these places. There were a few who seemed to cope better than others, particularly those who were inclined to go to church oriented stuff but that cannot be said for many.

I'd suggest that if taxpayers had any idea what really goes on in these places they'd not be too pleased. The whole thing just gets glossed over with nice words and good intentions and a few myths thrown in, and that has been masking the cesspit for decades.

Thanks JP - I didn't mean to drag up bad memories, sorry for that.

I was genuinely curious about your perspective, I don't know that any other poster has also spent time in community, and in many ways I support the stance of the WA government with Abbott's backing. No doubt there will be comment about this not being a Christian perspective, but as you say, if you've not lived it, you really don't understand it.

The crunch is that a 'gazetted town' or community must by law have a certain amount of public service - school, policing, medical - and it's not uncommon for communities to have more public servants than other tenants. At some point, this is (no pun) untenable, especially when a feud erupts between two family groups, one moves away and establishes yet another community, and then screeches about being 'left behind' and accuses whatever politician is handy of lying about 'closing the gap'.

As a legitimate community member of the Yamatji people and a very close friend of both traditional land owners and station owners who cohabit incredibly well, I know a lot of black fullahs that also argue that funding for small communities is not helping, it's making the problems worse. Not that forcing aborigines into the fringes or into white FWC houses is the solution, but in my view its not a binary debate.

Anyway, just threw it up there as food for thought.

StroppyChops wrote: The crunch is that a 'gazetted town' or community must by law have a certain amount of public service - school, policing, medical - and it's not uncommon for communities to have more public servants than other tenants. At some point, this is (no pun) untenable, especially when a feud erupts between two family groups, one moves away and establishes yet another community, and then screeches about being 'left behind' and accuses whatever politician is handy of lying about 'closing the gap'.

Spot on.

One other thing that just came to mind is how good these people are at playing politicians - they are masters of this. The trouble it that it helps very few and really exacerbates the whole festering sore.

Joker Poker wrote:

StroppyChops wrote: The crunch is that a 'gazetted town' or community must by law have a certain amount of public service - school, policing, medical - and it's not uncommon for communities to have more public servants than other tenants. At some point, this is (no pun) untenable, especially when a feud erupts between two family groups, one moves away and establishes yet another community, and then screeches about being 'left behind' and accuses whatever politician is handy of lying about 'closing the gap'.

Spot on.

One other thing that just came to mind is how good these people are at playing politicians - they are masters of this. The trouble it that it helps very few and really exacerbates the whole festering sore.

While the lawyers get richer.

Abbott the stinking fucking fucker...

"Indigenous advisers slam Tony Abbott's 'lifestyle choice' comments as 'hopeless, disrespectful'"
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-11/a ... ce/6300218

"Tony Abbott's choice of words on Indigenous communities clumsy, insensitive, destructive"
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politi ... 415s9.html

And to put it all in perspective.

i have worked in some of the communities out west - past bourke and brewarinna.

those people do not choose to live that way.
they have no choices.

it is very grim indeed.

look:

https://www.google.com/search?q=remote+ ... 66&bih=590

whose fault?

frank lee bent wrote:look:

https://www.google.com/search?q=remote+ ... 66&bih=590

whose fault?

Having worked building public (ie. free or hugely subsidized) housing in poor, inner-city areas and also worked on government funded projects to attempt to improve living conditions on several Native American reservations throughout the US, I can say without a doubt that people DO choose to or choose not to live in that kind of squalor, regardless of their economic situation. Millions of similarly poor but responsible people manage to live with dignity despite their dire poverty.