WJP rule of law; Cambodia 127 out of 128

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Re: WJP rule of law; Cambodia 127 out of 128

Post by Phnom Poon »

Kuroneko wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:11 am Ministry of Justice secretary of state and spokesman Chin Malin told The Post on Wednesday that the report seems to have assessed Cambodia by linking its judicial system and law enforcement to politics.
the minister does not seem to understand that government (not just politicians) is also subject to the law
his bare-faced assertions, eg that democratic cambodia is better than one-party states etc
don't really help to improve perceptions

.

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Re: WJP rule of law; Cambodia 127 out of 128

Post by beaker »

I guess then USA is 128
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Re: WJP rule of law; Cambodia 127 out of 128

Post by Bitte_Kein_Lexus »

John Bingham wrote:It's depressing to read a report like that. I don't believe it has any veracity. It's just the same old "bash Cambodia and hold them to higher standards " line that has been thrown at this country since the PRK and especially after UNTAC. There is a certain contingent that wants to make people believe that the Paris Peace Agreement brought peace to Cambodia. They deny that the factions only stopped fighting in 1998/9. Now they support reactionary and xenophobic divisive parties. Sure, things are not perfect here and the rich can buy impunity but to put this country at a lower rank than South Africa, El Salvador, Myanmar, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc is just ridiculous. Just below DRC? GTFOH you BS statisticians. :facepalm:
Is it now? We're inundated left and right with reports of corruption, miscarriage of justice and so on. And those are just the ones we hear about. There are countless more "around the dinner table" stories which are never mentioned in the news. The only dents made are when someone takes to social media and it gets enough traction for the very top to intervene (often because of social pressure, but also to legitimize one's status in a quasi Mandate of Heaven kind of way). Otherwise, tough luck. Is there worse? Of course, I'm sure there is. Had progress been made? For sure, transparency had improved, but to argue that Cambodia shouldn't be in the bottom third of that list, regardless of the methods used to measure, is akin to intentionally wearing rose-tinted lenses.
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Re: WJP rule of law; Cambodia 127 out of 128

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Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:38 pm
John Bingham wrote:It's depressing to read a report like that. I don't believe it has any veracity. It's just the same old "bash Cambodia and hold them to higher standards " line that has been thrown at this country since the PRK and especially after UNTAC. There is a certain contingent that wants to make people believe that the Paris Peace Agreement brought peace to Cambodia. They deny that the factions only stopped fighting in 1998/9. Now they support reactionary and xenophobic divisive parties. Sure, things are not perfect here and the rich can buy impunity but to put this country at a lower rank than South Africa, El Salvador, Myanmar, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc is just ridiculous. Just below DRC? GTFOH you BS statisticians. :facepalm:
Is it now? We're inundated left and right with reports of corruption, miscarriage of justice and so on. And those are just the ones we hear about. There are countless more "around the dinner table" stories which are never mentioned in the news. The only dents made are when someone takes to social media and it gets enough traction for the very top to intervene (often because of social pressure, but also to legitimize one's status in a quasi Mandate of Heaven kind of way). Otherwise, tough luck. Is there worse? Of course, I'm sure there is. Had progress been made? For sure, transparency had improved, but to argue that Cambodia shouldn't be in the bottom third of that list, regardless of the methods used to measure, is akin to intentionally wearing rose-tinted lenses.
The other countries I mentioned have much larger problems with extra-judicial killings, honor-killings, gang murders, bombings, insurgent groups and even genocidal killings and ethnic cleansing. How is Cambodia put below them?
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Re: WJP rule of law; Cambodia 127 out of 128

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I'm with JB, absolute bullshit - comparatively speaking.
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Re: WJP rule of law; Cambodia 127 out of 128

Post by fazur »

with JB

America i strying to extradite assange fro exposing war crimes. what does that tell you? and england and australia are helping them.

its no garden of eden, but why are we all here instead of back home? because in spite of all our superior expat whining its better.
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Re: WJP rule of law; Cambodia 127 out of 128

Post by bong.kuit »

I think things are partly being mixed up here. The report is mostly about the inner workings of the state apparatus, how the government is interferring with the courts, how likely it is to get 'justice' as a normal citizen compared to well-connected people etc., places where Cambodia is, at least to my knowledge, performing horribly bad.

When it comes to the categories "order & security" or "criminal justice", Cambodia has a place in the middle.

What motive should they have to smear Cambodia?
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Re: WJP rule of law; Cambodia 127 out of 128

Post by Bitte_Kein_Lexus »


John Bingham wrote:
Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:38 pm
John Bingham wrote:It's depressing to read a report like that. I don't believe it has any veracity. It's just the same old "bash Cambodia and hold them to higher standards " line that has been thrown at this country since the PRK and especially after UNTAC. There is a certain contingent that wants to make people believe that the Paris Peace Agreement brought peace to Cambodia. They deny that the factions only stopped fighting in 1998/9. Now they support reactionary and xenophobic divisive parties. Sure, things are not perfect here and the rich can buy impunity but to put this country at a lower rank than South Africa, El Salvador, Myanmar, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc is just ridiculous. Just below DRC? GTFOH you BS statisticians. :facepalm:
Is it now? We're inundated left and right with reports of corruption, miscarriage of justice and so on. And those are just the ones we hear about. There are countless more "around the dinner table" stories which are never mentioned in the news. The only dents made are when someone takes to social media and it gets enough traction for the very top to intervene (often because of social pressure, but also to legitimize one's status in a quasi Mandate of Heaven kind of way). Otherwise, tough luck. Is there worse? Of course, I'm sure there is. Had progress been made? For sure, transparency had improved, but to argue that Cambodia shouldn't be in the bottom third of that list, regardless of the methods used to measure, is akin to intentionally wearing rose-tinted lenses.
The other countries I mentioned have much larger problems with extra-judicial killings, honor-killings, gang murders, bombings, insurgent groups and even genocidal killings and ethnic cleansing. How is Cambodia put below them?
That's just one factor, as kuit says. The report clearly incorporates that as Order and Security. Cambodia isn't bad in that respect. El Salvador has a violence and gang problem and we can all agree Cambodia is much safer in that respect, and the report shows that (we even score higher than Russia). Afghanistan is dead last.

Cambodia (I'd say somewhat rightfully) falls short in many other Factors (absence of corruption or bribery, laws being applied evenly, constraints on government powers, efficiency etc). As with any NGO/IO report, it should be taken with a grain of salt rather than scripture, but the general overview is telling and in my experience, fairly accurate.

Should we be dead last in x category, number 152 or 89? I don't know. No one does. They try to make it seem super accurate when in reality, there are simply too many variables, but whatever, it's just some report. I'm sure they don't take into account all the small grievances which are settled by thumbprints at the Sangkat level, for example.


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Re: WJP rule of law; Cambodia 127 out of 128

Post by John Bingham »

Sure, as I stated in my original post things are far from perfect. Unfortunately the powers that be don't even want to admit there is any problem at all, and I doubt that will change anytime soon.
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Re: WJP rule of law; Cambodia 127 out of 128

Post by newkidontheblock »

beaker wrote: I guess then USA is 128
Remember, for the posters who complain how corrupt and opaque things are in Cambodia, at least one poster knows where things are much worse.

More hopelessly corrupt than Cambodia could ever dream to be..

The USA.

BTW, the US was ranked 21, just below France.
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