The face of pure evil?

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Pizzalover
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Re: The face of pure evil?

Post by Pizzalover » Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:59 pm

Let me start with drifter: Was it you who denounced red-necks a bit earlier in this thread? I think it was you. Correct me if I am wrong. Was it you who advocated the death penalty right afterwards? I think it was you. Correct me if I am wrong. Your flexibility amazes me, not that I am impressed though. Much less so. You need to learn a lot before you will even come close to put up a convincing argument against the legal standards of the international courts.

The idea of a reconciliation commission is interesting but leaves out some aspects. The KR have never disowned their ideology. They deny their crimes and justify their conduct. They still spread ethnic hatred - meaning that any Khmer can be targeted. They do not cooperate in the investigation of crimes. Instead threaten new crimes. Compare this situation with the South African government at the end of apartheid. The only thing that separates those criminals from doing it again, is their lack of power.

I also fail to understand why a logic which fits the daily visit at the grocery, expense, should be the measure for justice. If this would apply the result would be clear. Justice for the rich and forget about the less fortunate. We had this long enough and the international courts are slowly putting an end to it.

Wondering about 'truth' is a meritorious exercise. It is even more so if the wonderer cares to support his claims with a trickle of evidence.

Since expression like "show trials" are still used here: I would like to see some justification for this. Not opinions. I like information from the trials which might even remotely justify this slander. The trials were public and transparent. Thus, there is no excuse like lack of access of data. Empty accusations reflect on the accuser not the victim of his slander.

This whole denunciation of a legal verdict and the process leading up to it is nothing less than Neo-Con rhetoric. International legal norms limit the exercise of power by national governments but also put at least obstacles in the way of dominant powers like the US. The Neo-Cons know that. It takes a considerable degree of confusion to employ language that resembles liberal, critical or even 'progressive' positions in order to take down this single most important achievement for the protection of the individual against state power since World War 2.
Drifter
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Re: The face of pure evil?

Post by Drifter » Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:10 pm

Pizzalover, all i'm saying is that either they put on trial the KR, the Viet, the US, and the Chinese, or this trial is total BS and a show trial organized and backed by the US and their dogs.

Of course you're free to disagree, i love to exchange passionate opinions and opposing views.

Fact is, all this mess started because of the US involvement, because of the US' backed Lon Nol coup, and the subsequent civil war backed by the Chinese and then the involvment of the NVA, it's a domino effect but the ones to blame are still the americans and yet not a single ONE of them is being called into question, this is shameful and you as many others have the guts to talk about "justice" being served ?
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Re: The face of pure evil?

Post by Pizzalover » Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:34 pm

Again, you try to create confusion. Guilt is something very personal. No matter how often you repeat your claims, unless you present some direct link between KR crimes and the other parties you mention your statement does not work. Do not forget if everybody is guilty, nobody is. That is by the way the bottom line of your reasoning.

The guilt of say the Chinese government does not absolve any of the Khmer.

Calling an international court of justice BS, well, as you like but dont expect to be taken seriously. This is just bar talk.

You denounce the US but then you apply their contemporary talk like the 'domino effect.' That was the exact wording by which they justified the bombings..... I dont think that such language is appropriate, it is anyhow false.

I am looking forward to the next trials and what new insights they will bring out.
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Re: The face of pure evil?

Post by Drifter » Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:45 pm

Pizzalover wrote:Do not forget if everybody is guilty, nobody is. That is by the way the bottom line of your reasoning.
Yes, exactly.
Drifter
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Re: The face of pure evil?

Post by Drifter » Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:01 pm

Pizzalover wrote:The guilt of say the Chinese government does not absolve any of the Khmer.

Calling an international court of justice BS, well, as you like but dont expect to be taken seriously. This is just bar talk.

You denounce the US but then you apply their contemporary talk like the 'domino effect.' That was the exact wording by which they justified the bombings..... I dont think that such language is appropriate, it is anyhow false.

I am looking forward to the next trials and what new insights they will bring out.

it's not bar talk, the russians and chinese medias fully support my stances on this and so many other topics related to KR, UN, US/NATO.

the moral of the story is the aggressor was the US Army, so no matter what happened later as "domino effect", the US should be blamed MORE than any other party involved, without the US carpet bombing eastern cambodia and the HoChiMinh trail there would have been no LonNol coup, no civil war, no KR, simple as that.

these and so many other are just the classic examples of "war by proxy" but since we're talking about justice being served the most guilty is and always will be those fomenting and backing the parties directly and indirectly causing a war by proxy.

if that matter and using the same logic, we could all agree the French are to blame for the whole mess in Indochina, but guess what if the french didn't invaded somebody else was already planning to do the same, the british for instance and with some luck even the dutch or the portuguese.

in any case the Japanese took over the entire SE Asia until 1945 and history could have been very different.

you see, sort of a risiko but then people want simple answer to very complex issues, can not.
the KR were just a bunch of badasses guerrillas hiding in the jungle before Sihanouk hired them as useful idiots (and viceversa).
even the maoists in china were on the verge of being annhilated in a few occasions and only because of the japanese invasion they got their only chance to succeed.

nothing is ever peaceful and linear and obvious in this continent, and it makes it even more dangerous to set up show trials to accuse and condemn only a single party for all the shit that happened in cambo or elsewhere.

i'm not saying the lawyers and the international circus are a joke and should be booted in the mekong, i'm sure they're all skilled and respected professionals but it's the whole concept of a trial against the KR that is a slap on the face of those who died, there are still craters made by the B52s everywhere in indochina and nobody gives a shit and yet the headlines are about 90 yrs former KR leaders being thrown in jail, what about Nixon, Kissinger, McNamara ?

there's no justification for the US involvement, you know it better than me but since you're american you won't admit it because of nationalism and indoctrination, because you drink from the imperialist kool-aid and see nothing wrong in the US being the sceriff of the world or even "rome reincarnated" as they love to call themselves ...
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ali baba
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Re: The face of pure evil?

Post by ali baba » Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:03 pm

Pizzalover wrote:Let me start with drifter: Was it you who denounced red-necks a bit earlier in this thread? I think it was you. Correct me if I am wrong. Was it you who advocated the death penalty right afterwards? I think it was you. Correct me if I am wrong. Your flexibility amazes me, not that I am impressed though. Much less so. You need to learn a lot before you will even come close to put up a convincing argument against the legal standards of the international courts.
I don't follow. Do you consider this position to be a contradiction?
Scarier than malaria.
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Re: The face of pure evil?

Post by Soi Dog » Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:09 pm

Equating US support of the Lon Nol coup with a KR cadre knowingly and purposely sending helpless people to their executions is absolutely absurd.
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Re: The face of pure evil?

Post by flying chicken » Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:56 pm

I was going to write a response since page 2, but some of what I wanted to say was already said. I am not a historical geek like Pizzaman and his wordiness, and the alike. But to my eyes, the KR tribunal was just a show, though it started off as a genuine case; but it is nothing more than easy money for the cronies and foreigners who were involved. I followed it religiously for a year since the commence of the tribunal; perhaps it helps to calm the survivors and their children a sense of justice, but it is nothing more than a show. I am puzzling to understand why (well I do) that it costs millions of dollars to prosecute the alive KR leaders who about to hit the coffin for many years....and the case still and will continues. If you comprehend the Khmer language the judges who questioned them sounded like a retarded child..."why....did....you...kill...them? "why ...did ....you... commit... such... a bad... thing...?......"Who...did...you...kill?" Just my guess here, it is their intention to drag it as long as possible for financial benefits.

Furthermore, nevermind the younger generations....most of the older Khmer generations who know their history also think it is bs and a waste of foreign donated money which could be well spent for other purposes. Pizzaman repeatedly said it serves as a reminder for those who committed the atrocious crime or shit a long that line; yea right buddy!

What about the active and living Khmer Rouge? Such has Hor Namhong and HE just to name a few. The 004 case will target the likes of the evil lady in the OP but will never be the aforementioned names. Why? Because they have it under control and this is trial is taking place in CAMBODIA. This tribunal will continues as long as foreign money still flows! To simply put, the locals who know their history do not really care about these trials for the reason I just mentioned.

In term of the Yanks, publicly admitting such fault being proud Americans they are it's one of those 15th unwritten commandment i.e. a national embarrassment and will never be approved by the CIA and their other faggotory Agencies.
EVERYONE BOW DOWN AND PAY EXTREME HOMAGE TO HIS MAJESTIES flying chicken©
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Re: The face of pure evil?

Post by Drifter » Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:51 am

Soi Dog wrote:Equating US support of the Lon Nol coup with a KR cadre knowingly and purposely sending helpless people to their executions is absolutely absurd.
there would no khmer rouge without the Lon Nol coup, that's the point.

but before the Lon Nol coup there were entire villages in eastern cambodia disappearing from the map due to american B52 bombings.

the americans were more than aware of the consequences of their coup, and if that matters tons of royalists have been brutally killed by the Lon Nol army, what about Operation Chenla, what about the bombings in Phnom Penh and other cities ? nobody will ever pay for that, nobody will face a trial for that and yet you guys are only worried about the KR.

everyone love to bash the KR now as they're an easy scapegoat to avoid discussing all the other crimes and especially the american crimes.
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Re: The face of pure evil?

Post by Drifter » Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:58 am

Flying Chicken, the americans are doing the same shit as the KR but nobody dare to complain, they have prisons like Abu Grahib or Guantanamo, they promote civil wars and coups, they give arms and money to rebels and guerrilla fighters, they enact economic sanctions, nobody is stopping them apart russia and china and to top it off they make show trials to jail their enemies and their former allies.

and if somebody dare to complain they'll end up like Chelsea Manning or Snowden ...
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