Still Digging Up UXOs in Cambodia

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John Bingham
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Re: Still Digging Up UXOs in Cambodia

Post by John Bingham »

newkidontheblock wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:34 pm I agree with AndyKK. Those that do the dangerous job should be applauded. It’s an ongoing national priority. What confuses me, is why isn’t it part of the national budget? Government projected to collect 16 Billion in taxes. Lots of soldiers available. Bodies otherwise growing crops for military bases (at least on the videos in Facebook), that could be trained to do vital work. If the government invests into becoming a mine clearing powerhouse, instead of relying on CMAC, it would have an exportable expertise. A new export industry with a worldwide demand.

Instead of a local charity donation to buy military trucks.
CMAC is part of the RCAF, as in it is an official government body, not an NGO. They do a valuable job here and their deminers have worked for years in South Sudan, Chad etc. So I'm not sure what your point is?
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Re: Still Digging Up UXOs in Cambodia

Post by SternAAlbifrons »

^^^
An official United States Air Force record of U.S. bombing activity over Indochina from 1964 to 1973 was declassified in 2000.

According to the data, the Air Force began bombing the rural regions of Cambodia along its South Vietnam border in 1965 under the Johnson administration; this was four years earlier than previously believed.

Operation Menu was a covert United States Strategic Air Command (SAC) tactical bombing campaign conducted in eastern Cambodia from 18 March 1969 until 26 May 1970

The Menu bombings were an escalation of what had previously been tactical air attacks.
President Richard Nixon authorized for the first time use of long-range Boeing B-52 Stratofortress heavy bombers to carpet bomb Cambodia.

Operation Freedom Deal immediately followed Operation Menu.

Under Freedom Deal, B-52 bombing was expanded to a much larger area of Cambodia and continued until August 1973.

From 1993 to 2019, the U.S. government invested more than $154 million for CWD programs in Cambodia to clear mines and UXO. (only)
That pittance had trickled to a $2 mill/yr dribble by 2018.



(PS, The fab, dangerous work done by the committed deminers of CMAC are betrayed by that org's heads who are still as corrupt as hell)
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John Bingham
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Re: Still Digging Up UXOs in Cambodia

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SternAAlbifrons wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:30 am
The Menu bombings were an escalation of what had previously been tactical air attacks.....

Operation Freedom Deal immediately followed Operation Menu.

Under Freedom Deal, B-52 bombing was expanded to a much larger area of Cambodia and continued until August 1973.
You make some good points, especially about the distinction between Menu and Freedom Deal. Many people talk about the "secret bombing" of Cambodia which refers to Menu. Freedom Deal as you said was a continuation of the same mission but under a different Cambodian administration. Sihanouk had made various complaints about bombing raids that had hit Cambodian territory since at least 1965, but he didn't complain when the PAVN bases were bombed in 1969. He was probably correct in thinking that the areas didn't have many civilians in them. He knew he couldn't police these areas himself, his armed forces were a terrible mess of nepotism and corruption.

So moving on to the Lon Nol administration. This mentally-crippled individual demanded that all PAVN/ NLF troops leave Cambodian soil within 48 hours. This was a few days before the coup which removed Sihanouk from the government. This resulted in an immediate reaction from the PAVN/ NLF troops who moved from border areas deep into the interior. There are unsubstantiated reports that the PAVN were ready to take Phnom Penh in early 1970 but held back. So the war escalated, their were massacres of ethnic Vietnamese around Phnom Penh and then the US and ARVN did their incursion. This was very unpopular in the US so any actions in Cambodia had to be toned down in future. Meanwhile the PAVN/ NLF troops are taking over the whole country bit by bit and then passing the captured areas to the previously unimportant Kampuchean Communists.

The country became a battleground, and the US helped to modernize the Khmer Republic's army. I don't have the figures on hand but I have read that during the war the whole countryside became depopulated. Early on many stayed in the "Liberated Zones" but as conditions became harder and communal dining etc was introduced most left for the Lon Nol held areas. This resulted in a staggering proportion of the populace moving to the beleagured provincial capitals and big smoke. Perhaps 80-90% of the population had fled the conflict and the communist zones. The majority supported the Republic's efforts to prevent a communist takeover, and they knew that without the B52s and Phantoms they would be swamped rapidly.

The Khmer Air Force was built up after its complete destruction by Viet commandos early in the war so they had some T28s and Hueys and C-47 gunships but nothing like the might of USAAF they had backing them till 1973. My point is that the Cambodians wanted this help, they were dismayed when congress messed that up. If it weren't for the US help the republic would have crumbled in 1971. USAAF was working with local FANK commanders and just a handful of US forward air controllers. Try and make a case for the lunatics who took over, there isn't one.

Also - these UXOs in recent reports are nearly all of Chinese or Soviet origin.
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Re: Still Digging Up UXOs in Cambodia

Post by SternAAlbifrons »

I can't and won't and wouldn't make a case for those that took over (the KR), of course.
But i do contend that the KR would never have been successful, or even a real force, without the bombing.
And that Sihanouk was only dragged into the war because he was effectively forced to by the insane war USA bought to next door.

in short

but i don't really want to start a re-run of the conflict.
'Quagmire territory.
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Re: Still Digging Up UXOs in Cambodia

Post by AndyKK »

John Bingham wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:21 am
newkidontheblock wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:34 pm I agree with AndyKK. Those that do the dangerous job should be applauded. It’s an ongoing national priority. What confuses me, is why isn’t it part of the national budget? Government projected to collect 16 Billion in taxes. Lots of soldiers available. Bodies otherwise growing crops for military bases (at least on the videos in Facebook), that could be trained to do vital work. If the government invests into becoming a mine clearing powerhouse, instead of relying on CMAC, it would have an exportable expertise. A new export industry with a worldwide demand.

Instead of a local charity donation to buy military trucks.
CMAC is part of the RCAF, as in it is an official government body, not an NGO. They do a valuable job here and their deminers have worked for years in South Sudan, Chad etc. So I'm not sure what your point is?
My point was about anything that happens to be in the news about unfortunate incidents due to mines, or that of a new donation from a country, the officialdom jump's straight in saying it needs X amount of dollars to complete the clearance by 2025. Yes, I agree the chance to take the opportunity for donation, people can not all work for free and be that of mere volunteer's more so when lives are at risk doing the important work out in the field, just as it was initially the the lives put on the line for the expertise of American and British de-miners, the first of the organisations to work in the country, funding by charities, mine clearance, training of future new Cambodian de-mining groups, schooling, building, hospital care for civilians and artificial limbs, plus pension schemes for the ones injured, the list can go on.
You mentioned Chinese made landmines, so many of them too, but China has never paid a donation, but I was aware of them being asked to help last year.
Always "hope" but never "expect".
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Re: Still Digging Up UXOs in Cambodia

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Cambodia News, Banteay Meanchey Province: Police from Srah Chik Commune Administration Post, Phnom Srok District, Banteay Meanchey Province, on March 26, 2021, confirmed that they received 9 unexploded ordnance from some local people.
The police kept the UXOs for temporary safekeeping, and then contacted the Halo Trust unit, who took them away to be destroyed.
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Re: Still Digging Up UXOs in Cambodia

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Cambodia News: On March 29, 2021, the Cambodia Mine action Centre (CMAC) team said that they found a pit of buried UXOs in Kampot province and another one in Kampong Thom province.
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Both pits were searched, and the UXOs have been removed and will be destroyed.
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Re: Still Digging Up UXOs in Cambodia

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Many parts of Cambodia, particularly those that are close to the borders, still have unexploded mines in unexpected places.
On Saturday, a cow stepped on a mine at the mouth of a river in Pailin province, blowing up its right hind leg.

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Cambodia News, (Pailin): According to the Ministry of Interior's Education Dissemination Pack, at 11:30 a.m. on Saturday, April 10, 2021, there was a case of a cow stepping on a landmine left over from the war at a point on the mountain near Phnom Doh Kramom next to the river in Thnal Keng village, O'Andong commune, Sala Krao district, Pailin province.
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The mine explosion caused the cow to lose its right hind leg, but the cow owner was not injured.
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Re: Still Digging Up UXOs in Cambodia

Post by CEOCambodiaNews »

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Cambodia News, (Siem Reap): A cow died after a herd of about 30 cattle went into an area that was prohibited for grazing in Srong village, Siem Reap province. The animal stepped on an unexploded mine and blew itself up.
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Fortunately the other cattle escaped unharmed and no humans were injured.
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Re: Still Digging Up UXOs in Cambodia

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Cambodia News (Kompong Chhang): On Monday, June 7, 2021, the Rolea P'ear and Kompong Leng district police contacted the CMAC, the landmine specialists, after they found 6 faulty landmines located in the two districts.
There were 2 (105mm & POMZ) from Rolea P'ear and 4 (3 were 60mm & 1 was M381) from the Kompong Leng district.
They were all carefully cleared and destroyed in a remote area to prevent life-threatening incidents.
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