Luigi wrote:
Yeah sure. But that is only because it is illegal. If it were legal then no one would use it.

How's that for logic?

Would be nice if it were true.

TBH the costs need "deaggregating" into medical, social and criminal/legal aspects. How much is criminalisation costing the intervention? My stance was to support a harm minimisation model. Decriminalise, then control and medicalise. However you still end up with a cost to individuals and society that you want to reduce.

The argument concerning social/medical interventions revolves around the dividing responsibility between government and the individual. How much personal liberty is allowed before it causes problems to other members of society? Personally I would prefer maximum autonomy, but that presupposes a society of intelligent and responsible individuals which in my experience seems to be sadly lacking.

Kuroneko wrote:

Luigi wrote:
Yeah sure. But that is only because it is illegal. If it were legal then no one would use it.

How's that for logic?

Would be nice if it were true.

TBH the costs need "deaggregating" into medical, social and criminal/legal aspects. How much is criminalisation costing the intervention? My stance was to support a harm minimisation model. Decriminalise, then control and medicalise. However you still end up with a cost to individuals and society that you want to reduce.

The argument concerning social/medical interventions revolves around the dividing responsibility between government and the individual. How much personal liberty is allowed before it causes problems to other members of society? Personally I would prefer maximum autonomy, but that presupposes a society of intelligent and responsible individuals which in my experience seems to be sadly lacking.

1)methamphetamine is not addictive - habit forming for some
2)heroin generally is addictive - at least it can be
3) before around 1914 heroin was legal in usa and before that time there was NO crime associated with it
4)just as was proven for cigarettes drug use does not cost society but saves money - people generally die sooner so less life long medical expenses , social security and other entitlement payments etc. to them

Anchor Moy wrote:

zmth wrote:

epidemiks wrote:Why do you insist on bumping every single drug related post?

Afraid can't really go into this because seems no matter what i post someone accuses me of trolling. Anyway it's very opinionated and controversial subjects such as right to die , right to suicide under any circumstances OR say discussing religion vs atheism 50 years ago , propaganda and brainwashing by government etc. - one is outnumbered.... ' can't fight city hall ' .

Right. Hope that answers your question epidemiks.

Crystal clear :thumbs:

zmth wrote: 1)methamphetamine is not addictive - habit forming for some

I would be interested in reviewing the evidence on which that opinion is based.

Habit vs addiction
We often use the words habit and addiction interchangeably, yet there are significant differences between the two terms. Habits can be both positive and negative whereas addictions by their very nature are only negative. One of the most important identifiers of a habit vs. an addiction is the amount of effort and time required to change the learned behavior of the habit or addiction.https://theaddictionadvisor.com/habit-o ... ifference/

Methamphetamine Addiction: A Review of the Literature
Petit A, Karila L, Chalmin F, Lejoyeux M (2012) Methamphetamine Addiction: A Review of the Literature. J Addict Res Ther S1:006. doi:10.4172/2155-6105.S1-006

Methamphetamine addiction is a serious public health problem with many consequences and complications. Significant morbidity, including cardiovascular, infectious, pulmonary, dental diseases and other systems complications are associated with methamphetamine acute or chronic use. Methamphetamine dependence also causes serious cognitive impairments that can persist during abstinence and negatively affect recovery outcomes.

There are no approved medications for the treatment of methamphetamine dependence. Efficient treatments include behavioural and psychological approaches of contingency management, cognitive-behavioural therapy, and motivational enhancement strategies.

Methamphetamine users are at an elevated risk of cardiac pathology. Emergency department data has shown consistent chest pain, cardiac arrhythmias (tachycardia), palpitations and hypertension to be among the most common physical symptoms after methamphetamine intoxication [42-45]https://www.omicsonline.org/methampheta ... p?aid=3893

Methamphetamine and cardiovascular pathology: a review of the evidence.
Kaye S1, McKetin R, Duflou J, Darke S.Addiction. 2007 Aug;102(8):1204-11. Epub 2007 Jun 12.

There is sufficient clinical and experimental evidence to suggest that methamphetamine can have adverse and potentially fatal effects on the cardiovascular system. The existing literature suggests that: (1) methamphetamine users are at elevated risk of cardiac pathology; (2) risk is not likely to be limited to the duration of their methamphetamine use, because of the chronic pathology associated with methamphetamine use; (3) the risk of cardiac pathology is greatest among chronic methamphetamine users; (4) pre-existing cardiac pathology, due to methamphetamine use or other factors, increases the risk of an acute cardiac event; and (5) methamphetamine use is likely to exacerbate the risk of cardiac pathology from other causes, and may therefore lead to premature mortality.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17565561

Korenko wrote;

''I would be interested in reviewing the evidence on which that opinion is based

I've set in on this debate more times than i want to recall. In the end, either or..

You got a problem which so often causes other people problems.
And what is the cost of that private or public?

Luigi wrote:Korenko wrote;

''I would be interested in reviewing the evidence on which that opinion is based

I've set in on this debate more times than i want to recall. In the end, either or..

You got a problem which so often causes other people problems.
And what is the cost of that private or public?

You are getting too complicated. Depending upon how much one uses it is likely worse health for a person than heroin in general. And when you say "you" are you speaking of anyone in particular like anyone on this board or just users of methamphetamine in general or both ?

zmth wrote:

Luigi wrote:Korenko wrote;

''I would be interested in reviewing the evidence on which that opinion is based

I've set in on this debate more times than i want to recall. In the end, either or..

You got a problem which so often causes other people problems.
And what is the cost of that private or public?

You are getting too complicated. Depending upon how much one uses it is likely worse health for a person than heroin in general. And when you say "you" are you speaking of anyone in particular like anyone on this board or just users of methamphetamine in general or both ?

Just to clarify the above is not all my quote, I said "I would be interested in reviewing the evidence on which that opinion is based"
below is the piece quoted by Luigi:

Luigi wrote: I've set in on this debate more times than i want to recall. In the end, either or..
You got a problem which so often causes other people problems.
And what is the cost of that private or public?

Of course I have, but not now because I am retired. Before I supplied policy advice on health related issues to a number of state and federal governments in Australia, and so it is still an interest to me.

Of course you should have a free choice if you want to get high, but who would knowingly choose this ?

Meth mouth. Enuf said.


How it destroys your body, mind and desires:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meth/body/
Evil stuff.