Do you actually believe that the "ordinary" visa is to help you with not having to do visa runs? If you're not here to work then you should have a tourist visa. Tourist visa holders are exempt from work permit requirements.

Oh, and one other thing: For those foreigners actually employed and in need of a permit, the onus to obtain and pay for a work permit is on the employer, not the employee. That's the law.

That's why they round up employers for not having their papers in order and not employees. 'Tis the law!

6EQUJ5, have you gone through the work permit process yourself?

BOFH wrote:Do you actually believe that the "ordinary" visa is to help you with not having to do visa runs? If you're not here to work then you should have a tourist visa. Tourist visa holders are exempt from work permit requirements.

Is that what I said it's for? The fact is that the Ministry of Immigration has failed to implement a sensible visa scheme which would include the common visa types offered by most other countries. Where's the retirement visa? Where's the education visa? Where's the now-defunct business visa? It's not my problem that basic visa types aren't available here.

6EQUJ5 wrote:Is that what I said it's for? The fact is that the Ministry of Immigration has failed to implement a sensible visa scheme which would include the common visa types offered by most other countries. Where's the retirement visa? Where's the education visa? Where's the now-defunct business visa? It's not my problem that basic visa types aren't available here.

No. Regardless, if you are not here to work then you need to hold a tourist visa. All types of aliens, as defined per Article 4 of the immigration law, currently require work permits accompanied by their visas permitting longterm stay.

You did, however, point at the law, and I'm sure you're aware of the residency card being a requirement for holding an ordinary visa. As we both know, it's impossible to get residency cards issued. So much for what the law says about the matter.

There is no need for a business visa. The ordinary visa is the business visa. The ordinary visa and the business visa has always been the same visa: type E (not to be confused with "E-visa", the electronic visa, notice how GM confuses them). They never changed the business visa. They only stopped calling it business visa and started calling it ordinary visa. Besides that, there is no change.

BOFH wrote:

6EQUJ5 wrote:Is that what I said it's for? The fact is that the Ministry of Immigration has failed to implement a sensible visa scheme which would include the common visa types offered by most other countries. Where's the retirement visa? Where's the education visa? Where's the now-defunct business visa? It's not my problem that basic visa types aren't available here.

No. Regardless, if you are not here to work then you need to hold a tourist visa. All types of aliens, as defined per Article 4 of the immigration law, currently require work permits accompanied by their visas permitting longterm stay.

You did, however, point at the law, and I'm sure you're aware of the residency card being a requirement for holding an ordinary visa. As we both know, it's impossible to get residency cards issued. So much for what the law says about the matter.

There is no need for a business visa. The ordinary visa is the business visa. The ordinary visa and the business visa has always been the same visa: type E (not to be confused with "E-visa", the electronic visa, notice how GM confuses them). They never changed the business visa. They only stopped calling it business visa and started calling it ordinary visa. Besides that, there is no change.

Most of what you have said directly contradicts the statements made by the Labor Ministry spokesman. You asked for my source and I gave it to you. Where is YOUR source?

You seem adamant that the Ordinary Visa is for business and work purposes. If that's the case, why did the Ministry change the name from Business Visa to Ordinary Visa?

6EQUJ5 wrote:Most of what you have said directly contradicts the statements made by the Labor Ministry spokesman. You asked for my source and I gave it to you. Where is YOUR source?

Immigration law says the following:

"Any person who does not have Cambodian nationality shall be considered an alien, without discrimination as to the nationality, belief, religion or where he/she originated.

Based on the Article 4 of the Cambodia Immigration Law, aliens seeking admission to stay in Cambodia [Note: Visa type E] shall be divided into 3 types according to the conditions for immigration: 1. The non-immigrant aliens; 2. The immigrant aliens; 3. The immigrant aliens as private investors."

"Article 10: Aliens who can be considered as immigrants are:

1. Aliens who are legally entering the Kingdom of Cambodia in order to perform their professions or conduct activities relating to industry, commerce, agriculture or services;[Note: Visa type E]

2. Those aliens who have not been included in any of the categories as related in Article 7 of this Law."

"Article 14: All immigrant aliens shall have to present themselves at the Alien Office of the Municipal or Provincial Police Commissariats in the city/province where they are going to stay within 49 hours of their arrival, in order to complete applications for Resident Cards. [Note: Impossible to acquire] Receipts shall be given to immigrant aliens after receiving such applications."

"Article 19: When offering any job to any alien[Note: Holders of visa type E], one shall comply with the Labor Law of the Kingdom of Cambodia. The Ministry of Interior, in collaboration with the Ministry of Social Actions, Labor, and Veteran Affairs, shall have the power to conduct checks of and maintain controls on the labor / working cards of the foreign workers in every factory, enterprises, company and establishment."

http://www.cambodiahome.com/cambodiavisa.htm

Labour law says the following:

"Article 261

No foreigner can work unless he possesses a work permit and an employment card issued by the Ministry in charge of Labour. These foreigners must also meet the following conditions:

a) Employers must beforehand have a legal work permit to work in the Kingdom of Cambodia; [Note: Business registration, NOT employment cards]

b) These foreigners must have legally entered the Kingdom of Cambodia;

c) These foreigners must possess a valid passport;

d) These foreigners must possess a valid residency permit; [Note: Impossible to acquire]

e) These foreigners must be fit for their job and have no contagious diseases. These conditions must be determined by a Prakas from the Ministry of Health with the approval of the Ministry in charge of Labour.

The work permit is valid for one year and may be extended as long as the validity of extension does not exceed the fixed period in the residency permit of the person in question."

http://www.cambodiainvestment.gov.kh/th ... 70313.html

By now you should have noticed that the translations are inadequate. For example, business registration and employment card has been translated equally into "work permit". The work permit required by the employer is the legal registration to operate a business in the coutry. The work permit required by the employee is a separate employment card, traditionally known as the "work permit", which looks like this:



I'm not going to go through the trouble of digging out the relevant prakas and laws as it's not easily available at writing time to prove the separation between tourist visas and ordinary visas, but if you're in Cambodia on a longterm stay then you need a work permit. (The quoted parts of the immigration law should make this clear either way.) The reason is simply because the tourist visa is for temporary visitors and not longterm stayers. If you're staying longterm, visa type E, then you need a work permit regardless if you work or not. It's a translation error that employers are responsible. Employers are responsible for their legal right to operate businesses, not for your legal right to hold visas of type E. That's why employers don't pay for their employees' papers in practice. They're not required to.

I can quote someone who did dig it out:

All foreigners on long-stay “ordinary” or “business” visas need a work permit, regardless of their actual work status. Those on NGO visas are exempt.

In the future, retirees may have a special visa, but for now, they need a work permit.

http://www.movetocambodia.com/expat-lif ... -cambodia/

6EQUJ5 wrote:You seem adamant that the Ordinary Visa is for business and work purposes. If that's the case, why did the Ministry change the name from Business Visa to Ordinary Visa?

To avoid confusion? I don't know. They didn't change the visa type or the requirements of the visa type. Do you have any visas from the time before the change? If you do, take a look and tell me what type of visa it is. I bet it's type E, just like your most recent "ordinary" visa.

Counter question: Why didn't all departments change the name? Could it possibly be because it doesn't really matter? I don't know, but as I already showed you not all departments of the government call it "ordinary".