Jamie_Lambo wrote: i'm good friends with the bar owner, i can feel sorry for him if i like, not his fault, he puts a lot of effort into that bar, then for 2 of his new staff (only been working there bout a month) to do this

It sounds like he hasn't used great judgment about whom to hire or how to supervise them or whether to otherwise have adequate security to prevent his employees from doing something like this.

mate, both the lads have been working on the beach since they were little kids, how the hell was he supposed to know, theyve not got a history of raping backpackers. plus hes not always in the bar 24/7 he hires staff to run the bar, hes in there a lot but not all the time, i dont know if youve ever spent any time down the beach bars, theyre beach bars not night clubs no bar has any security, its a dodgy place, hense why people should take care when theyre out drinking

How did she get from the beach to their room?

Thanks for posting the background info Jamie.

Cam Nivag wrote:

Jamie_Lambo wrote: i'm good friends with the bar owner, i can feel sorry for him if i like, not his fault, he puts a lot of effort into that bar, then for 2 of his new staff (only been working there bout a month) to do this

It sounds like he hasn't used great judgment about whom to hire or how to supervise them or whether to otherwise have adequate security to prevent his employees from doing something like this.

C'mon Cam Nivag I think that's stretching employer liability to the extreme. Sounds like these guys have taken advantage of a one off situation. I remember we had a difference of opinion OTOF in another of the rape cases this year. I don't blame the victims, if I remember the common theme in the 3 cases I've read this year in SR, SHV, PP is the victim being excessively pissed and some random dudes taking advantage of the situation. I don't know whether some young women let their guard down in Cambodia on personal safety or would behave the same at home, but it's extremely risky wherever they are.

Cam Nivag wrote:It sounds like he hasn't used great judgment about whom to hire or how to supervise them or whether to otherwise have adequate security to prevent his employees from doing something like this.

By the same measure, the guy who hired the trader in Hong Kong also showed lack of judgment when his employee murdered two women?

Bit harsh to judge the owner of the bar, any recruiter who says he/she hasn't made serious mistakes is lying or starting work for the first day.

My own view is that people are angry (as am I) and taking it out on Jamie for a perfectly innocent post, perhaps in an attempt to show how angry they are, I don't know. My advice to Jamie is 'ignore'.

Martin, I sincerely hope your sister comes through this OK, and the perps get what they deserve

vladimir wrote:

Cam Nivag wrote:It sounds like he hasn't used great judgment about whom to hire or how to supervise them or whether to otherwise have adequate security to prevent his employees from doing something like this.

By the same measure, the guy who hired the trader in Hong Kong also showed lack of judgment when his employee murdered two women?

Bit harsh to judge the owner of the bar, any recruiter who says he/she hasn't made serious mistakes is lying or starting work for the first day.

My own view is that people are angry (as am I) and taking it out on Jamie for a perfectly innocent post, perhaps in an attempt to show how angry they are, I don't know. My advice to Jamie is 'ignore'.

Martin, I sincerely hope your sister comes through this OK, and the perps get what they deserve

+1

Cam, although I do have a genuine respect for your serious input into most threads here and elsewhere, I also extend this to your obvious knowledge and understanding of the dangers posed by breath stealing Cambodian trees, here I think is not the place or time to be making such nonsensical arguments.

Jamie_Lambo wrote:i had only made one comment about my friend who owns the bar,
it was other posters that decided to pick that particular comment out and turn it into a discussion

it sounds like the police acted fairly quickly so fair play to them, i hope they get a worthy sentence

Yep, it came from somebody that sounded very much like Gavin Mac and just his style (dudes etc) to try and bring about that kind of licentious debate, based on a highly spurious premise. I'm surprised that sort of thing is allowed.

This was his previous post before before the one that tried to use you and your innocent comment:

Cam Nivag wrote:

Why would anyone hire Khmer dudes as waiters anywhere? They're all terrible. Hire Khmer women, they won't rape customers or try to kill you if you fire them.

I walked into Khmer Surin restaurant a few weeks ago and the staff were all dudes. So many dudes. I don't get it.

Not very nice is it.

I used to work in HR. I famously had a fairly public argument (which sadly is no longer available to link to) with the head of HR for a major American multi-national about rape. He insisted that none of his workforce of 10,000 employees was a rapist. I proved mathematically that the odds of this being true were greater than the odds of me winning the lottery consecutively every week for a year. He then spent a year sending me angry notes and demanding I take it back...

The UN says that 20% of men in Cambodia have carried out an act of rape. That's higher than the presumed rape rates elsewhere. Sooner or later, if you hire men (not just Khmer men), you're going to hire a rapist. They don't come with signs on their foreheads saying "I'm a rapist". They normally don't confess to rape on their CVs. Many men, who have raped, don't seem to understand why their actions were rape "she led me on", "but she was drunk", etc. and thus even if people were 100% honest... many rapists wouldn't be able to confess to rape because they don't believe that they did rape anyone.

Given that, it's impossible to blame an employer when one of their staff rapes someone - unless the employer somehow encouraged or incentivized the behaviour (which seems incredibly unlikely outside of the military/police/jail staff of real hell holes).

It's also worth noting that rape happens everywhere and when it comes to drunken backpackers it amazes me it doesn't happen more often (given the local law enforcement's general incompetence). It happens a lot in Thailand (the post-Full Moon party clear ups are littered with sobbing women attacked when they were too drunk or too smashed on drugs to defend themselves or run away). You cannot blame a victim for rape either even if their behaviour increases the likelihood of rape.

The only person you get to blame is the rapist.

Again, If it is correct that she was passed out on the BEACH, how did she get to their ROOM.