Help Me Buy A Flat in PP...

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phuketrichard
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Re: Help Me Buy A Flat in PP...

Post by phuketrichard » Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:53 pm

michael.stewart1 wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:19 am
canucklhead wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:58 am
michael.stewart1 wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:44 am
MikeD wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:17 pm
Hello Expats and the like.
First, I hope you are WELL and SAFE from COVID 19.
I want to find some reliable, reputable, local contacts to help me buy a flat in PP. You know how the locals value the ground floors for business reasons? Well, sometimes they have an excess floor above they want to rent or sell. I have some questions about that and want to know what your thoughts are:

1. How much this one floor ownership option would cost in the Deun Penh or Riverside area compared to just renting it?

2. Where is the best place to look for these kinds of lower cost arrangements? Do you know anyone or websites in particular that offer these options?

3. I am buying to let friends and relatives stay while I am not there. Prefer a two bedroom configuration with a bathroom, kitchen space, etc. You know the things that a New Yorker would want.

4. If you can help, post here, pm me, OR better yer send me your number to chat on Whatsapp. Thanks in advance...MikeD
What I would do in your case would be to contact properties in the location you are interested in and ask them if they can rent you the property with a 100 year lease that is assignable or transferable. Then you basically own the property for 100 years. Foreigners cannot own land in Cambodia but there are no laws stating that you cannot rent it. This is what alot of people in China would do. In China you are not allowed to own property but you can buy the right to use the property which is basically rent. In Cambodia it would be similar. If i wanted to start a Cocoa plantation in Ratanakiri I would just find a person who would be willing to lease the land to me for 100 years and I am good to go. You can always renew the lease after the 100 years if you need to.
Ummmm sorry how long have you lived here?
Always lots of advice from those who dont own anything in Cambodia. I have bought, renovated and sold several flats here in PP and always made profit. Check khmer24 website for flats for sale. There are plenty of them available in the areas you want. The inner city upper floors are easy and cheap to renovate and bring up to western standards. Of course the best way is to be here on the ground. Imho most of the real estate agents here are a waste of time.
Pm me if you like.
It is my understanding that foreigners are not allowed to buy real estate in Cambodia. If i want to go buy land in Ratanakiri to build a house and a cocoa plantation I would either have to marry a Khmer woman, become a Khmer citizen or signs a 100 year lease so I can use the land. This is why I am not willing to buy real estate in Cambodia and plan to buy land in Russia, Peru, Or Brazil where they do not have restriction on landownership like they do in Asia. I would love to buy land in Ratanakiri or in Borneo Indonesia but these countries do not allow foreigners to own land. I do not want to marry someone simply so I can buy land.
your CONSTANT posts about ur moving to Russia, learning to speak Russian, getting a lady and living there is getting, ( for me) REALLY old :stir:
In a nation run by swine, all pigs are upward-mobile and the rest of us are fucked until we can put our acts together: not necessarily to win, but mainly to keep from losing completely. HST
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truffledog
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Re: Help Me Buy A Flat in PP...

Post by truffledog » Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:13 pm

rogerrabbit wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:15 pm

Hmm, not so sure if renting has been that great deal for you. If I remember right they were selling these condos ~$100k back then (before it was completed, even cheaper off-the-plan) and now the rent is $800/month and you have stayed there for 10 years?

By the way how has the building hold up? Lot of visible wear in public areas? Elevators working fine etc?
If he had invested the 100K in DOW JONES INDEX back in 2010 he would have more than doubled the initial investment with a lot less risk IMHO.

DJ april 13th 2010: 11'000
DJ april 13th 2020: 23'720 (and that is after the heavy Corona losses)
= 216%

so with 100K invested he would end up with 216'000 $

whats the actual value of an appartment paying 800$ a month?

Well the 800$ are not net income for the owner. Let` assume he is paying 200$ a month for maintainance and communal costs (pool, gardening, elevator, cleaning and probably other) it leaves 600$ net. For the simplicity lets assume he's paying no tax for the income. Lets also assume that investments of this type usually generate 8% net return for the investors.

Therefore the value of the appartment is : 600*12 (annual net return) divided 8% (expected return% on investment) = 90'000

Final:

Investment value at the end if he had bought the appartment:

90'000 for the appartment value 2020
72'000 for the net income (renting 10 years at 600 $ net a month)

so if he invested 100K in the appartment he would end up with a total 162'000$
=162%

up to you which one you prefer and where you see more risk.
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Re: Help Me Buy A Flat in PP...

Post by Kuroneko » Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:51 pm

rogerrabbit wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:15 pm
Kuroneko wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:31 am
MikeD wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:24 pm
Hello Expats, Friends and the like: I want to clarify that you can make "special arrangements" if you buy the flat from someone you know even thought the law precludes ownership of non Khmer citizens. I know this option has been exercised before. You just have to secure the ownership of your flat with a side collateral against the main owner.

However I am more interested in whether to A) rent indefinitly, B) buy or C) use AirBnB option based on what I wanted to do. Furthermore, I wanted a Western style property - a bathroom with a separate toilet, shower/tub, A/C unit, etc.
Rent indefinitely and get a fully serviced apartment. Here is a good deal http://www.mekong-gardens.com/index.php?page=pro When this place was built about 10 years ago I was going to buy, but decided to rent. The apartment is cleaned/serviced twice a week and any problems with appliances, furnishings etc get fixed, or replaced immediately. Has good secure parking, amenities, pool, sauna, gym etc. and quiet location about ten minutes from town.

Image

Image
Hmm, not so sure if renting has been that great deal for you. If I remember right they were selling these condos ~$100k back then (before it was completed, even cheaper off-the-plan) and now the rent is $800/month and you have stayed there for 10 years?

By the way how has the building hold up? Lot of visible wear in public areas? Elevators working fine etc?
I moved in when the building was completed and price for a two bedroom with extra maids room was just under $200k i think.

There is an onsite maintenance department which is important for me, everything is regularly maintained and kept to a good standard, and this applies to the whole building also, for example re painting of the building and the pool has been relined once and the sauna refurbished while I have been here. Lifts are regularly maintained TV, furnishings an other appliances replaced on request and backup power clicks in pretty seamlessly.

If you buy or if you rent without full service you have this extra inconvenience to worry about and pay for. Many people considering the price of renting forget about the extra cost of furnishing and upkeep and extras such as pool, sauna and gym. As I already mentioned if a TV, fridge or washer breaks down you have to either find someone to fix it or buy another, whereas I have the appliance replaced within half an hour.

I stay because it suits me perfectly, if it was not up to scratch I would have got another place. There was a place I was considering which had all the amenities I wanted and also had a tennis court and attached wine bar but it was not directly on the banks of the Mekong or Tonle Sap. which is highly important to me. If you know of a better deal which has all the amenities I have plus is located directly on the banks of the Mekong or Tonle Sap let me know.
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Re: Help Me Buy A Flat in PP...

Post by Ravensnest » Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:42 pm

He did leave out the costs of upkeep and incidentals. There are negatives and positives to everything which is what makes the world an interesting place. To some, renting gives them peace of mind they do not mind paying for by the loss of equity. I would worry sick without being legally married and owning or long term leasing a home here in Cambodia right now. Renting here is perfectly fine with me currently. Now in 5 or 10 years when I return and if I'm still married, then I'll be looking to buy and rent.

As a business prospect- truffledog (hell of a name) has his head screwed on right and thanks for the quick numbers you showed us. I'd like to learn more and diversify properties in other countries.
The KoW, where you get tired of asking "WTH..?" Collector of high-end opium paraphernalia and looking for more.
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Re: Help Me Buy A Flat in PP...

Post by Kuroneko » Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:05 pm

Ravensnest wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:42 pm
He did leave out the costs of upkeep and incidentals. There are negatives and positives to everything which is what makes the world an interesting place. To some, renting gives them peace of mind they do not mind paying for by the loss of equity. I would worry sick without being legally married and owning or long term leasing a home here in Cambodia right now. Renting here is perfectly fine with me currently. Now in 5 or 10 years when I return and if I'm still married, then I'll be looking to buy and rent.

As a business prospect- truffledog (hell of a name) has his head screwed on right and thanks for the quick numbers you showed us. I'd like to learn more and diversify properties in other countries.
Interesting seeing the different perspectives on apartments. I never thought of my condo as a possible investment. I could have bought the place when I originally moved in, but after a couple of months decided to take the "fully serviced" option. I wanted something that gave me the best quality of life at a reasonable price and with the least hassle, it was more an investment in an enjoyable lifestyle cost not being much of an issue. :D
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Re: Help Me Buy A Flat in PP...

Post by rogerrabbit » Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:41 pm

truffledog wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:13 pm
rogerrabbit wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:15 pm

Hmm, not so sure if renting has been that great deal for you. If I remember right they were selling these condos ~$100k back then (before it was completed, even cheaper off-the-plan) and now the rent is $800/month and you have stayed there for 10 years?

By the way how has the building hold up? Lot of visible wear in public areas? Elevators working fine etc?
If he had invested the 100K in DOW JONES INDEX back in 2010 he would have more than doubled the initial investment with a lot less risk IMHO.

DJ april 13th 2010: 11'000
DJ april 13th 2020: 23'720 (and that is after the heavy Corona losses)
= 216%

so with 100K invested he would end up with 216'000 $

whats the actual value of an appartment paying 800$ a month?

Well the 800$ are not net income for the owner. Let` assume he is paying 200$ a month for maintainance and communal costs (pool, gardening, elevator, cleaning and probably other) it leaves 600$ net. For the simplicity lets assume he's paying no tax for the income. Lets also assume that investments of this type usually generate 8% net return for the investors.

Therefore the value of the appartment is : 600*12 (annual net return) divided 8% (expected return% on investment) = 90'000

Final:

Investment value at the end if he had bought the appartment:

90'000 for the appartment value 2020
72'000 for the net income (renting 10 years at 600 $ net a month)

so if he invested 100K in the appartment he would end up with a total 162'000$
=162%

up to you which one you prefer and where you see more risk.
So in your calculation the apartment hasn't appreciated at all, actually it has lost value? At least friend of mine sold very similar Mekong Tower unit for almost $160 at the end of last year which he bought for under $100k.

But like you said, up to you which one you prefer and where you see more risk :)

Kuroneko wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:51 pm
..
There is an onsite maintenance department which is important for me, everything is regularly maintained and kept to a good standard, and this applies to the whole building also, for example re painting of the building and the pool has been relined once and the sauna refurbished while I have been here. Lifts are regularly maintained TV, furnishings an other appliances replaced on request and backup power clicks in pretty seamlessly.
...
This is fun fact, as people on this forum usually likes to shout that the maintenance in Cambodia is horrible and nothing works after couple of months and the building pretty much collapse after 2 years :D
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Re: Help Me Buy A Flat in PP...

Post by MikeD » Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:40 am

[/quote

There is an onsite maintenance department which is important for me, everything is regularly maintained and kept to a good standard, and this applies to the whole building also, for example re painting of the building and the pool has been relined once and the sauna refurbished while I have been here. Lifts are regularly maintained TV, furnishings an other appliances replaced on request and backup power clicks in pretty seamlessly.

If you buy or if you rent without full service you have this extra inconvenience to worry about and pay for. Many people considering the price of renting forget about the extra cost of furnishing and upkeep and extras such as pool, sauna and gym. As I already mentioned if a TV, fridge or washer breaks down you have to either find someone to fix it or buy another, whereas I have the appliance replaced within half an hour.

I stay because it suits me perfectly, if it was not up to scratch I would have got another place. There was a place I was considering which had all the amenities I wanted and also had a tennis court and attached wine bar but it was not directly on the banks of the Mekong or Tonle Sap. which is highly important to me. If you know of a better deal which has all the amenities I have plus is located directly on the banks of the Mekong or Tonle Sap let me know.
[/quote]

I love the views from the Mekong Gardens.
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