To tip or not to tip... or should it be banned?

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Re: To tip or not to tip... or should it be banned?

Post by OrangeDragon » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:00 am

I helped to start this forum because I liked having discussions with people... why put the effort into it if i'm then not to participate in the discussions that interest me? And I don't actually participate in every discussion... in fact quite a few I don't even really read. Only those that interest me or are site related.

Just in this section of the 21 1st page topics not started by me, I count about 10 that i've actively participated in, of those about 5-6 that i've participated in a back-and-forth as above. (And with more than a few of those back and forths being dengeham trying to tell me that because i get drunk once or twice every couple of weeks i'm an alcohol addict.)
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Re: To tip or not to tip... or should it be banned?

Post by Rain Dog » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:09 am

OrangeDragon wrote:I helped to start this forum because I liked having discussions with people... why put the effort into it if i'm then not to participate in the discussions that interest me? And I don't actually participate in every discussion... in fact quite a few I don't even really read. Only those that interest me or are site related.

Just in this section of the 21 1st page topics not started by me, I count about 10 that i've actively participated in, of those about 5-6 that i've participated in a back-and-forth as above. (And with more than a few of those back and forths being dengeham trying to tell me that because i get drunk once or twice every couple of weeks i'm an alcohol addict.)
I agree with you. You can be very much overly-tenacious even when proven wrong but the more energy you put into this forum the better; particularly with G-Mach now preoccupied with oasis, mirages, and harems.

I really do think you need more fresh content here though.

Cheers,

RD
Last edited by Rain Dog on Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: To tip or not to tip... or should it be banned?

Post by OrangeDragon » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:12 am

Rain Dog wrote: I really do think you need more fresh content here though.
yeah, planning the trip home has been a bit of a sudden and whirlwind sort of thing. with me gone, the wife is moving back to PP where her friends are, so we're trying to pack house and plan it all out... with about a month to do it in. has kept me from content hunting much, and honestly it's been sort of a "slow news month" for the country... not much happening really, compared to when there were protests and madness every other week.
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ali baba
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Re: To tip or not to tip... or should it be banned?

Post by ali baba » Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:04 am

There used to be restaurants that charged people to work there because the tips were so good. This is illegal now.
______________
Joker Poker wrote:No offence meant here, but OD have you considered that dominating almost every discussion over here may not actually be doing CEO any favours. My tip would be that you don't have to win every argument or take them up. Add to this that both of you will be OS for around a year.

With the alleged departure of The Fuhrer approaching the other site may gain some appeal and traction.
I agree and would also like to criticise G-Mack for posting too sparsely since leaving Cambodia. Mods/ admins should spend as much time as possible in Cambodia whilst spending minimal time on their website.
Scarier than malaria.
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Re: To tip or not to tip... or should it be banned?

Post by UKJ » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:51 pm

OrangeDragon wrote:Look up how many reality Tv shows are dramatized and faked... it's sad really that you believe reality TV is "real" life. They re-shoot those scenes per the film crews to get them in the most "dramatic" light. To the cops, at the time, they probably think it makes them look "tough on crime".
One great scene in COPS (made by the same people) shows the cops seeing the crooks and jumping in the car to go chase down the guys... driving away but forgetting the film crew. A few seconds later it cuts to them in a high speed chase with the camera crew POV in the car. A slip up on the editors part that made it really clear that the show was heavily staged.

CLEARLY not documentaries... though you keep claiming they are. It's not real man... it's just not real. And I didn't tell you what europeans think... i asked... and apparently you answered. that they can't tell american entertainment TV from american educational TV. Not sure if that speaks poorly on them or on the TV producers for making such garbage.

As for your attempted jab, out of all of my friends here i'd say about 80% are from a european country... many of whom have been to america and seen for themselves, not just posted links to "travel guides" that suggest a $5 tip for a cleaning lady (did she clean the room while naked!?). I generally like europeans... and i'm not sure where you get that i don't.

As for contradictions... give me a single example where i've contradicted my earlier claims?
UKJ wrote: How can it be a misconception, when I was telling you what, imho, I thought of small tips that I received! You are not just telling us what vastly different countries over an entire continent thinks, you are trying to tell me what I think :D

Maybe these obnoxious LV service staff think that way, but imho, that's arrogant. Maybe their service wasn't as good as they thought. Maybe their falseness shone through. Or maybe the tipper was poor. Bad service = no tip. It's not up to them to judge what they are worth in a customers eyes.
Here i stand corrected and apologize, I had misread that as you always tip, but the tips were sometimes tiny.

Much like you frequently are misreading my posts... like in regards to exceptional service. If you go back to where that started (and where i used ordering the B52s in a slammed bar) you'll see i said that in those cases someone should tip MORE... not that it was the basis for all tipping.

As for getting what you ordered in your last quote, i meant that as a "all other aspects being fine" before listing off the exceptional bits. sorry if that wasn't clear.

And I'd call American "average" service as listed above exceptional compared to a lot of the other service I've had in non tipping countries.
You are getting desperate. You are talking about a different show altogether, and an incident that doesn't sound whatsoever like overly aggressive police decking and tasering tourists in busy streets and talking down to them. Bit like you actually. You are turning into a KiR type already.

I'd prefer if you didn't call me sad, bullheaded or that I talk out my ass, just because my links disagree with your forum owing almightiness. It just descends into trash talk. Now put up, that the LV police have faked tourist being decked and tasered for next to nothing, in a SHOW YOU HAVEN'T SEEN.

Series 1 Ep 1, right at the start - a guy who they could have dealt with verbally, gets assaulted by several police, and the guy with the bad attitude ( no , not you,) tasers him, in front of a big crowd. How is that staged? Back your claim that I (a member who supports your forum and recommended it on other forums) am sad.
Edit - http://really.uktv.co.uk/shows/vegas-po ... 8140643001" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by UKJ on Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: To tip or not to tip... or should it be banned?

Post by UKJ » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:58 pm

So do Americans think it's right to underpay a section of the labour market by so much?

Or tell us why dealers are tipped at poker tables, but not roulette tables? Bag packers aren't tipped, but barstaff are? ( unless it's seen as purely a bribe to jump the queue later)

And is it ok to demand 2% - 8% of a persons winnings, which is probably ten thousand dollars +. in todays higher prize money? And dish that money out without explanation. Would that money be taxed? Would the winner be able to claim it as an expense?
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Re: To tip or not to tip... or should it be banned?

Post by OrangeDragon » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:12 pm

UKJ wrote: You are getting desperate. You are talking about a different show altogether, and an incident that doesn't sound whatsoever like overly aggressive police decking and tasering tourists in busy streets and talking down to them. Bit like you actually. You are turning into a KiR type already.
I asked you earlier if "Vegas Strip" was the show you were talking about since i couldn't find one by the exact name you gave. You never replied. Thinking it was, I progressed with it. If that's it, then it's the exact same makers as COPS... so the same "tricks". for the 40th time... reality TV is not a documentary. VAST differences between the two.
UKJ wrote: I'd prefer if you didn't call me sad, bullheaded or that I talk out my ass, just because my links disagree with your forum owing almightiness. It just descends into trash talk. Now put up, that the LV police have faked tourist being decked and tasered for next to nothing, in a SHOW YOU HAVEN'T SEEN.

Series 1 Ep 1, right at the start - a guy who they could have dealt with verbally, gets assaulted by several police, and the guy with the bad attitude ( no , not you,) tasers him, in front of a big crowd. How is that staged? Back your claim that I (a member who supports your forum and recommended it on other forums) am sad.
Edit - http://really.uktv.co.uk/shows/vegas-po ... 8140643001" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
haha, that IS Vegas Strip... they renamed it for the UK market. Same series. Starts off with a foreign tourist reporting a guy and the cops helping. First the guy starts touches the 1 cop from behind (about the time the guy says "you got to start a commotion"). That's a huge no-go with cops. Then the guy is instructed, verbally, to put his hands behind his back. He fails to comply and resists. he's then moved to the ground where he still refuses to comply and continues to resist... then after continued resistance and struggling with the cops, they use the taser. That likely wasn't staged... but well deserved. Though i don't get where you think he's a foreign tourist. They both have US accents and the one guy says they're from Arizona... barely a US tourist even being so close to Vegas.

The whole conversation with the guy afterwards... that never happens in reality. Only reality TV. Dramatized. As for if the scene is faked... I couldn't prove either way, not without 'insider info' but TruTV, the ones who make the show, are famous for doing it with their reality TV shows. It eliminates their credibility. So yeah, it's pretty sad for anyone to think that a show like that (especially from TruTv) represents real life. It's like big brother, X Factor, etc... they're all staged and exaggerated, with lots of clever editing to make it look more entertaining.
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Re: To tip or not to tip... or should it be banned?

Post by OrangeDragon » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:21 pm

UKJ wrote:So do Americans think it's right to underpay a section of the labour market by so much?

Or tell us why dealers are tipped at poker tables, but not roulette tables? Bag packers aren't tipped, but barstaff are? ( unless it's seen as purely a bribe to jump the queue later)

And is it ok to demand 2% - 8% of a persons winnings, which is probably ten thousand dollars +. in todays higher prize money? And dish that money out without explanation. Would that money be taxed? Would the winner be able to claim it as an expense?
Americans also think it's ok to voluntarily take those jobs... and most of those working those jobs WANT to work in a tip industry. As was mentioned earlier, there used to be tip jobs where you had to pay to GET the job, and people lined up for them because the tips were good.

You can/do tip at all of the tables. Bag packers can't increase the quality of the experience to much of an extent. I covered this in an earlier post you must of not read. Most of what decides tip/no-tip is based on customer exposure and the amount a worker can increase the customer's experience (or not).

The tip pool at the casino you're talking about, where tips were "demanded", was paid up by the casino... not the players. and the dealers were then sacked for doing it. The explanation for people who do tip choosing to do so is likely that the dealer preformed well in their opinion. I suppose the casino could just take these dealers (most of who flew in at their own expense to work the games) and pay them more, then take a 2-8% larger rake of the chips. Take it out of the players hands to make the choice on if they tip or not.

As for taxed, the players are only taxed on what they leave the table with and cash in... so no.
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Re: To tip or not to tip... or should it be banned?

Post by UKJ » Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:06 am

OrangeDragon wrote:
UKJ wrote: You are getting desperate. You are talking about a different show altogether, and an incident that doesn't sound whatsoever like overly aggressive police decking and tasering tourists in busy streets and talking down to them. Bit like you actually. You are turning into a KiR type already.
I asked you earlier if "Vegas Strip" was the show you were talking about since i couldn't find one by the exact name you gave. You never replied. Thinking it was, I progressed with it. If that's it, then it's the exact same makers as COPS... so the same "tricks". for the 40th time... reality TV is not a documentary. VAST differences between the two.
UKJ wrote: I'd prefer if you didn't call me sad, bullheaded or that I talk out my ass, just because my links disagree with your forum owing almightiness. It just descends into trash talk. Now put up, that the LV police have faked tourist being decked and tasered for next to nothing, in a SHOW YOU HAVEN'T SEEN.

Series 1 Ep 1, right at the start - a guy who they could have dealt with verbally, gets assaulted by several police, and the guy with the bad attitude ( no , not you,) tasers him, in front of a big crowd. How is that staged? Back your claim that I (a member who supports your forum and recommended it on other forums) am sad.
Edit - http://really.uktv.co.uk/shows/vegas-po ... 8140643001" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
haha, that IS Vegas Strip... they renamed it for the UK market. Same series. Starts off with a foreign tourist reporting a guy and the cops helping. First the guy starts touches the 1 cop from behind (about the time the guy says "you got to start a commotion"). That's a huge no-go with cops. Then the guy is instructed, verbally, to put his hands behind his back. He fails to comply and resists. he's then moved to the ground where he still refuses to comply and continues to resist... then after continued resistance and struggling with the cops, they use the taser. That likely wasn't staged... but well deserved. Though i don't get where you think he's a foreign tourist. They both have US accents and the one guy says they're from Arizona... barely a US tourist even being so close to Vegas.

The whole conversation with the guy afterwards... that never happens in reality. Only reality TV. Dramatized. As for if the scene is faked... I couldn't prove either way, not without 'insider info' but TruTV, the ones who make the show, are famous for doing it with their reality TV shows. It eliminates their credibility. So yeah, it's pretty sad for anyone to think that a show like that (especially from TruTv) represents real life. It's like big brother, X Factor, etc... they're all staged and exaggerated, with lots of clever editing to make it look more entertaining.
I take that as a no then, you can't back it up, but are too arrogant to admit it! And that you couldn't figure out the name of a show from a link I posted, and went with the wrong programme. No wonder you think it's exceptional when a server gets an order correct! :ROFL2:
What is sad, is thinking you could use shows like Big Brother, x factor etc, as a smokescreen to mask your false claims about live , supplied footage of an incident on a Vegas street in front of a crowd. You have tried name calling, smokescreens, " my European friends say!!!" , but no substance.
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Re: To tip or not to tip... or should it be banned?

Post by UKJ » Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:44 am

OrangeDragon wrote:
UKJ wrote: You are getting desperate. You are talking about a different show altogether, and an incident that doesn't sound whatsoever like overly aggressive police decking and tasering tourists in busy streets and talking down to them. Bit like you actually. You are turning into a KiR type already.
I asked you earlier if "Vegas Strip" was the show you were talking about since i couldn't find one by the exact name you gave. You never replied. Thinking it was, I progressed with it. If that's it, then it's the exact same makers as COPS... so the same "tricks". for the 40th time... reality TV is not a documentary. VAST differences between the two.
UKJ wrote: I'd prefer if you didn't call me sad, bullheaded or that I talk out my ass, just because my links disagree with your forum owing almightiness. It just descends into trash talk. Now put up, that the LV police have faked tourist being decked and tasered for next to nothing, in a SHOW YOU HAVEN'T SEEN.

Series 1 Ep 1, right at the start - a guy who they could have dealt with verbally, gets assaulted by several police, and the guy with the bad attitude ( no , not you,) tasers him, in front of a big crowd. How is that staged? Back your claim that I (a member who supports your forum and recommended it on other forums) am sad.
Edit - http://really.uktv.co.uk/shows/vegas-po ... 8140643001" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
haha, that IS Vegas Strip... they renamed it for the UK market. Same series. Starts off with a foreign tourist reporting a guy and the cops helping. First the guy starts touches the 1 cop from behind (about the time the guy says "you got to start a commotion"). That's a huge no-go with cops. Then the guy is instructed, verbally, to put his hands behind his back. He fails to comply and resists. he's then moved to the ground where he still refuses to comply and continues to resist... then after continued resistance and struggling with the cops, they use the taser. That likely wasn't staged... but well deserved. Though i don't get where you think he's a foreign tourist. They both have US accents and the one guy says they're from Arizona... barely a US tourist even being so close to Vegas.

The whole conversation with the guy afterwards... that never happens in reality. Only reality TV. Dramatized. As for if the scene is faked... I couldn't prove either way, not without 'insider info' but TruTV, the ones who make the show, are famous for doing it with their reality TV shows. It eliminates their credibility. So yeah, it's pretty sad for anyone to think that a show like that (especially from TruTv) represents real life. It's like big brother, X Factor, etc... they're all staged and exaggerated, with lots of clever editing to make it look more entertaining.
I missed this pot, and only noticed when it was within a quote, I think!
It's the taser etc, and other take downs that I was obviously talking about when I said that Vegas police treat tourists poorly imho. Conversations afterwards are irrelevant. That and other incidents were totally avoidable. That Sgt Tom guy is a bully who escalates most situations.

So no, it wasn't sad for me to say the take down was real, and you have just admitted it. So you called me sad for no reason. You mentioned the other contestant based shows to discredit a show, you now admit shows real takedowns, like I said.
FAF you watch the x factor. I won't call it sad though! I wouldn't watch BB or the x factor if Sgt Tom was forcing me with his tazer.
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