To tip or not to tip... or should it be banned?

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Garry.Crabtree
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Re: To tip or not to tip... or should it be banned?

Post by Garry.Crabtree »

Regardless of your nationality, you should always tip at an Indian restaurant.
Otherwise its bad korma.
According to the proverb: The pun is mightier than the sword
Soi Dog
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Re: To tip or not to tip... or should it be banned?

Post by Soi Dog »

I knew an Irish bartender who worked at a high end bar in New York. He treated everyone who tipped him even one nickel with a big smile and a hearty "thank you so much"...and he meant it. Class act.
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Re: To tip or not to tip... or should it be banned?

Post by OrangeDragon »

UKJ wrote:
Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote:I then slid back a 50 cents tip for him. He pushed the change back towards me across the bar, I then pushed it back towards him with a look on my face that said: "no no, it's for yo ;) ". He walked off and left it there. .
.
Some tips were tiny, but it's the thought that counts imho.
Another misconception... a small tip is actually more insulting than no tip. with no tip they may have just forgotten/etc... with a small tip it's seen as an intentional "this is all i think your service was worth."

As for the whole Vegas Strip show... did you seriously just call that a "documentary"? It's reality TV... pretty much as far from reality TV as possible, and in searching out the show a few people have suggested some of the more extreme cases are even staged... like most of the rest of reality TV, especially the shows by TruTV (who makes that one). So yes... I dispute the validity of a reality TV show to be a good example what what happens in real life in america. especially having seen said real life and seen mostly the opposite of that. Is it a common european misconception that reality TV in america is actually reality? would explain a lot...

as for politeness... it's not just americans saying it. i've heard from many european friends on how shocked they are by how polite and friendly americans were when they were there. sure, the continent is different... as are the regions within it... again, we're generalizing. i love how you can make generalizations about what europeans want, but i can't make them about how europeans act. you're double standard is adorable. meanwhile you don't see me nitpicking about people from the south vs people from vegas/la and the cultural and behavioural differences between them.
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Re: To tip or not to tip... or should it be banned?

Post by OrangeDragon »

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote: OD, when I'm in Canada or the US, I always tip. 15% is the norm, but it'll go up to 25% when I'm on the piss. Now Last year I went over and having been in Cambodia for a while, I make a faux pas. I went to a bar with a friend. Ordered two pints (6-7$ each). The guy brought them over with some change (4 quarters, a 1 dollars and a bill I think). I then slid back a 50 cents tip for him. He pushed the change back towards me across the bar, I then pushed it back towards him with a look on my face that said: "no no, it's for yo ;) ". He walked off and left it there. After he'd left, my friend (who is actually Cambodian) pointed out that it was a really small tip. I then did the math quickly and realized I had severely undertipped. It was quite embarrassing at the time as I had gone into "Cambodian" tipping mode. We then laughed about it as it was admittedly funny, but the guy didn't come to serve us again. Another guy served us. But it got me thinking a bit. Seriously, what was exceptional? He walked exactly 2.5 meters to greet us, 2.5m to the taps, poured two tap beers, then brought them over. A total of 7-8m walked and around 60 seconds total and for this he made 50 cents. The bar was relatively busy.
Well, lets say the 15% rule applies (which for bars it usually doesn't.. sort of their own scale). 2 pints at $6 (hell, where were you!?) would be $12... 15% would be $1.80. rounded, $2. that would sit with the $1 a drink scale. (Personally for basic beers, unless the place is REALLY busy, i don't give $1... i give $1 every 2 beers. If it's a guinness, where i realize there's a little more work in a good pour, then I will go up to $1 per.)

Tipping heavily under is, in American culture, an intentional act meant to insult the server... and you were tipping 25% of the standard... so it would be seen as intentional. Best one of those was my grandfather... if he ever had shit service he always left his "2 cents" as a tip.

Lets look at this as 3 points on a scale:
Shitty service: Your drinks sit empty, your order is wrong, the server is curt and impolite... no/insulting tip is how one should react. This is merit based, and they've not done anything to merit it. Either don't tip and let them figure it out, or leave an intentionally insulting tip to drive your point home.

Average service: You got what you ordered in reasonable time, they were friendly enough but not really endearing, drinks didn't sit empty very long, etc. 15-20%... the base average, which is part of their wage, which they successfully earned.

Exceptional service: You got what you ordered (perhaps even a with a tip from them on what one of the better dishes are), the service managed to make you smile/make your kids laugh/etc... something "above and beyond" average service, they seemed to have ESP for when you needed something and were always there happy to help, etc... here you tip a little over, depending on the degree and how much you valued it.
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Re: To tip or not to tip... or should it be banned?

Post by UKJ »

OrangeDragon wrote:
UKJ wrote:
Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote:I then slid back a 50 cents tip for him. He pushed the change back towards me across the bar, I then pushed it back towards him with a look on my face that said: "no no, it's for yo ;) ". He walked off and left it there. .
.
Some tips were tiny, but it's the thought that counts imho.
Another misconception... a small tip is actually more insulting than no tip. with no tip they may have just forgotten/etc... with a small tip it's seen as an intentional "this is all i think your service was worth."

As for the whole Vegas Strip show... did you seriously just call that a "documentary"? It's reality TV... pretty much as far from reality TV as possible, and in searching out the show a few people have suggested some of the more extreme cases are even staged... like most of the rest of reality TV, especially the shows by TruTV (who makes that one). So yes... I dispute the validity of a reality TV show to be a good example what what happens in real life in america. especially having seen said real life and seen mostly the opposite of that. Is it a common european misconception that reality TV in america is actually reality? would explain a lot...

as for politeness... it's not just americans saying it. i've heard from many european friends on how shocked they are by how polite and friendly americans were when they were there. sure, the continent is different... as are the regions within it... again, we're generalizing. i love how you can make generalizations about what europeans want, but i can't make them about how europeans act. you're double standard is adorable. meanwhile you don't see me nitpicking about people from the south vs people from vegas/la and the cultural and behavioural differences between them.
Double standards lol. Your delusion is unbelievable. Just about everything you have said has contradicted earlier claims. You have been proven wrong by books and documentaries and travel sites after stating " NEVER" and " ABSURD" lol. And now grasp at straws and say a TV show that follows LVP is staged , and yet again AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH, tell us what Europeans think. So you are unbelievably saying that Las Vegas Police, is staging incidents to portray itself negatively and deter tourists. :facepalm: Is the mayor behind this? Are the drunk foreigners American actors? Are the Police actors? You made a claim, I guess you have the answers!

Your imaginary European friends comments - Why would anyone be shocked that Americans are friendly? I have always found them to be amazingly friendly and helpful when travelling, and even online. It's just on here I've ran into a couple of iffy ones recently, but out of such a huge population, that's to be expected. I am a bit dismayed at the attitude that Euros are rude and obnoxious and American service staff and forum owners dislike them though.
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Re: To tip or not to tip... or should it be banned?

Post by UKJ »

OrangeDragon wrote: Some tips were tiny, but it's the thought that counts imho.
Another misconception... a small tip is actually more insulting than no tip. with no tip they may have just forgotten/etc... with a small tip it's seen as an intentional "this is all i think your service was worth."
[/quote]

How can it be a misconception, when I was telling you what, imho, I thought of small tips that I received! You are not just telling us what vastly different countries over an entire continent thinks, you are trying to tell me what I think :D

Maybe these obnoxious LV service staff think that way, but imho, that's arrogant. Maybe their service wasn't as good as they thought. Maybe their falseness shone through. Or maybe the tipper was poor. Bad service = no tip. It's not up to them to judge what they are worth in a customers eyes.
UKJ
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Re: To tip or not to tip... or should it be banned?

Post by UKJ »

OrangeDragon wrote: Exceptional service: You got what you ordered (perhaps even a with a tip from them on what one of the better dishes are), the service managed to make you smile/make your kids laugh/etc... something "above and beyond" average service, they seemed to have ESP for when you needed something and were always there happy to help, etc... here you tip a little over, depending on the degree and how much you valued it.

Exceptional service ............You got what you ordered! :ROFL:

a tip from them on what one of the better dishes are ..............The oldest restaurant sales trick in the book, to sell stuff they are stuck with , that is near it's sell by date. %)


Anyway, that was another contradiction. You claimed the whole tipping culture encouraged exceptional service. Obviously it doesn't if it falls short so often that getting an order right is exceptional. And if you do tip low for crap service, it's taken as an insult from a rude obnoxious dick.

I don't think a good case for poor pay for service staff has been made. And there's been no explanation to why some jobs don't get tips, while some guys will defend others to farcical extremes.
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Re: To tip or not to tip... or should it be banned?

Post by OrangeDragon »

Look up how many reality Tv shows are dramatized and faked... it's sad really that you believe reality TV is "real" life. They re-shoot those scenes per the film crews to get them in the most "dramatic" light. To the cops, at the time, they probably think it makes them look "tough on crime".

One great scene in COPS (made by the same people) shows the cops seeing the crooks and jumping in the car to go chase down the guys... driving away but forgetting the film crew. A few seconds later it cuts to them in a high speed chase with the camera crew POV in the car. A slip up on the editors part that made it really clear that the show was heavily staged.

CLEARLY not documentaries... though you keep claiming they are. It's not real man... it's just not real. And I didn't tell you what europeans think... i asked... and apparently you answered. that they can't tell american entertainment TV from american educational TV. Not sure if that speaks poorly on them or on the TV producers for making such garbage.

As for your attempted jab, out of all of my friends here i'd say about 80% are from a european country... many of whom have been to america and seen for themselves, not just posted links to "travel guides" that suggest a $5 tip for a cleaning lady (did she clean the room while naked!?). I generally like europeans... and i'm not sure where you get that i don't.

As for contradictions... give me a single example where i've contradicted my earlier claims?
UKJ wrote: How can it be a misconception, when I was telling you what, imho, I thought of small tips that I received! You are not just telling us what vastly different countries over an entire continent thinks, you are trying to tell me what I think :D

Maybe these obnoxious LV service staff think that way, but imho, that's arrogant. Maybe their service wasn't as good as they thought. Maybe their falseness shone through. Or maybe the tipper was poor. Bad service = no tip. It's not up to them to judge what they are worth in a customers eyes.
Here i stand corrected and apologize, I had misread that as you always tip, but the tips were sometimes tiny.

Much like you frequently are misreading my posts... like in regards to exceptional service. If you go back to where that started (and where i used ordering the B52s in a slammed bar) you'll see i said that in those cases someone should tip MORE... not that it was the basis for all tipping.

As for getting what you ordered in your last quote, i meant that as a "all other aspects being fine" before listing off the exceptional bits. sorry if that wasn't clear.

And I'd call American "average" service as listed above exceptional compared to a lot of the other service I've had in non tipping countries.
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Re: To tip or not to tip... or should it be banned?

Post by OrangeDragon »

The main argument for why some jobs are tipped and some are not, which I thought they'd already covered pretty well so left alone, is mostly about customer service and customer exposure. Motivation to make the people who deal directly with customers care more about making the customer happy with the service they received.

In a lot of jobs, there's just not much room there for that to vary. Paying for the gas you just filled your tank with is a pretty fast and dry experience. No time to really evaluate the clerk who takes your money and gives your change... and not much they can do to make the experience any better. Tips lose the "punch" there. This is also why I think tipping casino dealers is silly, unless they're helping you in some way by teaching you the game/giving pointers that help you win/etc.

Oh, and as for suggestions being to "get rid of what they're stuck with"... not so much in america. Because if they suggest it and you don't like it (which if they're "stuck with it" it probably wasn't very good) then you're not going to tip them very well... so they wouldn't suggest it (even if the boss is telling them to, they'll pretend they did). Guess that's actually a GREAT example of how tipping impacts customer service. The focus for the direct involvement member of the staff moves from doing what makes the most money for the company to what makes the customer most satisfied, because that's what their wage is dependant on.
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Re: To tip or not to tip... or should it be banned?

Post by Joker Poker »

No offence meant here, but OD have you considered that dominating almost every discussion over here may not actually be doing CEO any favours. My tip would be that you don't have to win every argument or take them up. Add to this that both of you will be OS for around a year.

With the alleged departure of The Fuhrer approaching the other site may gain some appeal and traction.
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