UKJ wrote:

OrangeDragon wrote: And American service staff are biased against europeans because many of the ones who visit America tend to be rude or obnoxious, and then leave no tip no matter how the server busted their ass for them.

one. Meanwhile, that beer costs $2.50... how much is one where you're from?

I think it's ignorant to call many European visitors rude or obnoxious.
And Europeans differ so widely from the French to Irish to Norwegians, that it sounds completely unlikely.
I had to point that out separately as it was so out of order imho. If you want to see obnoxious, watch " Vegas Police " on TV and see how badly they treat tourists.

Beer. Yes you can get cheap beer at those prices.

I lived in vegas... I don't need to go watch a TV show that sensationalizes individual moments while ignoring the rest or the context of them.

As for calling European visitors this or that... it's a generalization, sure. But a few "bad apples" making problems have ruined it for the rest... as is the case with most generalizations.

OrangeDragon wrote:
I've NEVER heard or seen someone tipping $2 a drink, even in vegas, as the standard... that's absurd. Generally bar tips are $1 a cocktail, .50 a beer. Like I said, some situations are exceptional and make for a larger one. Meanwhile, that beer costs $2.50... how much is one where you're from?

Cocktail Server -- $2 per drink
http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTopic- ... evada.html

OrangeDragon wrote: Another reason to tip high in a busy bar... if you order something extremely complicated. Like a round of b52 shots or something. They're super busy and taking the time to make those for you .

Lol. How can the country who put men on the moon, call a round of B52's complicated!

Busy bar? So they don't expect tips when it's quiet?

I know the score in bars and tip in them. It's a bribe, so they serve me quicker than others. I don't think opening a bottle of beer is exceptional, unless they do it through will power!

OrangeDragon wrote: A dealer dealing cards isn't a tip thing... you "can" on a winning hand, as a sign of good luck, but it's in way obligatory.
.

People have been pulled up in American casinos for not tipping the dealer. And I can look out the book where a journalist final tables the WSOP and they pretty much extort him for thousands.

OrangeDragon wrote:

UKJ wrote:

OrangeDragon wrote: And American service staff are biased against europeans because many of the ones who visit America tend to be rude or obnoxious, and then leave no tip no matter how the server busted their ass for them.

one. Meanwhile, that beer costs $2.50... how much is one where you're from?

I think it's ignorant to call many European visitors rude or obnoxious.
And Europeans differ so widely from the French to Irish to Norwegians, that it sounds completely unlikely.
I had to point that out separately as it was so out of order imho. If you want to see obnoxious, watch " Vegas Police " on TV and see how badly they treat tourists.

Beer. Yes you can get cheap beer at those prices.

I lived in vegas... I don't need to go watch a TV show that sensationalizes individual moments while ignoring the rest or the context of them.

As for calling European visitors this or that... it's a generalization, sure. But a few "bad apples" making problems have ruined it for the rest... as is the case with most generalizations.

Were you a foreign tourist? The Police treat tourists abysmally, and that includes American tourists. I think a TV series it's a better example than one mans experience.

I think your attitude on Europeans is terrible. I mainly take each person as I find them, and definitely each nationality as being different. I don't think Brits would talk poorly of all Asians, because they don't tip for example. But up to you if you if you want to class all euros as rude or obnoxious. Good to know what Americans think of us Europeans.

Cocktail Server - That's ridiculous. Unless... if the drinks are the free ones the casino gives you, generally people tip higher. Not forced, but like with a bar it will probably get the girl who serves them to come around more often. I usually set myself up at my table i'm playing, decide i'm staying, then give the girl a $5 chip to keep her coming round frequently. 1 chip usually does me for the 3 or 4 free drinks i'll have at that table.

For a bartender, it is. Any "layered" shot is going to be complicated and time consuming compared to simple mixers. And busy bar vs not busy... generally not a large one. If you're the only customer in an empty bar you can just keep ordering your drinks and tip at the end (a great way to tip less overall) and they won't be surprised. or only tip a small amount. example: in a dead bar i only tip every other beer... or i just buy the barman a drink and call it done for the next few rounds.

Dealers:
No they haven't. Not by the staff. A dealer does something like that and he can lose his license from the gambling board. A casino does it and they can be shut down. Like the employee who was extorting tips you're talking about had happen to him. See above about popular media liking to highlight the exceptional cases as the norm. And the issue there had actually even included the casino subsidising the tip pool when it was coming up shorter, and the dealers demanding more. They were all fired, and likely won't be able to find dealing jobs again anywhere reputable.

UKJ wrote: Were you a foreign tourist? The Police treat tourists abysmally, and that includes American tourists. I think a TV series it's a better example than one mans experience.

I think your attitude on Europeans is terrible. I mainly take each person as I find them, and definitely each nationality as being different. I don't think Brits would talk poorly of all Asians, because they don't tip for example. But up to you if you if you want to class all euros as rude or obnoxious. Good to know what Americans think of us Europeans.

Have you ever been to vegas? lol. Foreign tourists are the bread and butter and treated better than americans in most places. Stop watching sensationalist TV shows meant to entertain, not inform. They single out exceptional cases.

It's not my attitude, it's the attitude of serving staff. You have to understand that we really do have trouble telling most european accents on english apart. Most can't tell a brit from a scott, a norwegian from a frenchman, etc. Especially over the duration of a few food/drink orders. So yes, all of the countries sort of get lumped together.

Can you tell a new yorker from a californian? Or a floridian from someone raised in seattle? Simply by how they sound? Hell, i'm FROM america and most times can't tell what part of america they're from. And yes... the cultural aspects between the different US regions can vary as dramatically as those from 2 european countries.

Hell, can you even tell a canadian from an american? What about a mexican who was born and raised in america from one who lives in mexico?

OrangeDragon wrote:

UKJ wrote: Were you a foreign tourist? The Police treat tourists abysmally, and that includes American tourists. I think a TV series it's a better example than one mans experience.

I think your attitude on Europeans is terrible. I mainly take each person as I find them, and definitely each nationality as being different. I don't think Brits would talk poorly of all Asians, because they don't tip for example. But up to you if you if you want to class all euros as rude or obnoxious. Good to know what Americans think of us Europeans.

Have you ever been to vegas? lol. Foreign tourists are the bread and butter and treated better than americans in most places. Stop watching sensationalist TV shows meant to entertain, not inform. They single out exceptional cases.
It's not my attitude, it's the attitude of serving staff. You have to understand that we really do have trouble telling most european accents on english apart. Most can't tell a brit from a scott, a norwegian from a frenchman, etc. Especially over the duration of a few food/drink orders. So yes, all of the countries sort of get lumped together.

Can you tell a new yorker from a californian? Or a floridian from someone raised in seattle? Simply by how they sound? Hell, i'm FROM america and most times can't tell what part of america they're from. And yes... the cultural aspects between the different US regions can vary as dramatically as those from 2 european countries.

Hell, can you even tell a canadian from an american? What about a mexican who was born and raised in america from one who lives in mexico?

Single out exceptional cases! It's either allowed to deck a tourist for not stooping stone dead when asked to stop FROM BEHIND, or not. Taser people for vandalism etc. I remember seeing it, and thinking they would surely sack the " bully with a badge" . But no. I googled his name after I first saw it, and nada. At the end of the day, it's up to Vages, how they treat tourists. I am just giving my opinion based on a TV show that followed the Police around, bullying tourists. It's probably different from all other 1st world destinations, imho, but up to them.

I know Americans are all different. That's why I don't judge them all the same. Europeans are even more different than each other.
I think this highlights the flaws in not paying staff enough, and expecting customers, who may be from non tipping or low tipping cultures to pay them. It leads to Euros for example, being poorly treated.

And as Steve Buscemi said in Resovoir Dogs. Why not tip McDonalds staff? The whole tipping thing is illogical. Dealers!!! For dealing cards in a comfortable climate controlled environment, in complete safety? Why not bus drivers or dental receptionists?

To give you an idea of how the poor understanding of tipping, or just bullheadedness about it, of people from non tipping countries as a whole has impacted the relationship of servers and foreigners in America... when foreigners enter a restaurant the hostess (to person who seats them) almost universally will apologise to the waiter or waitress who's section they seated them in. ESPECIALLY if it's the sort of place that does "tip out" where a percentage of the tips (based on sales amounts) are distributed to the kitchen staff as well... because in that case, under a 15% tip actually costs the server money. As it should if they're cocking up constantly... since why should someone who fucks off and is sloppy/lazy get paid the same as someone who busts their ass making a good experience for a customer?

Are you talking about the show "Vegas Strip" by chance? Trying to find the examples you're giving. I don't watch much TV, especially "reality" TV, so I'm not intimately familiar with it. I do however know that if it was actual police brutality, and on film, it would have gotten them sacked... unless there was stuff that was edited out off camera to make the show more "entertaining" that you don't get to see... but that would justify the actions. Which is much more likely the case.

I looked up the WSOP tips. The book was " Positively Fifth Street". He was told by the casino after he won about $250k, that the tip is usually between 2% and 8%. That was $5k to $20k!!!! He asked if he could take care of it later, and he was told no by a huge guy, that they had to take care of their staff. He gave them $7,800.
Extortion I tell ya! With todays huge payouts of nearly $63 million , they will be extorting millions of dollars.

OrangeDragon wrote: Are you talking about the show "Vegas Strip" by chance? Trying to find the examples you're giving. I don't watch much TV, especially "reality" TV, so I'm not intimately familiar with it. I do however know that if it was actual police brutality, and on film, it would have gotten them sacked... unless there was stuff that was edited out off camera to make the show more "entertaining" that you don't get to see... but that would justify the actions. Which is much more likely the case.

This Sergeant is a piece of work. Ok this guy had his hands partially hidden, but this guy takes down people every time I've seen it, and I've only seen it a few times.


From this TV show.
http://really.uktv.co.uk/shows/vegas-police/
Series 1 Ep 2 on this page, he takes a guy down from behind for nothing.

OrangeDragon wrote:To give you an idea of how the poor understanding of tipping, or just bullheadedness about it, of people from non tipping countries as a whole has impacted the relationship of servers and foreigners in America... when foreigners enter a restaurant the hostess (to person who seats them) almost universally will apologise to the waiter or waitress who's section they seated them in. ESPECIALLY if it's the sort of place that does "tip out" where a percentage of the tips (based on sales amounts) are distributed to the kitchen staff as well... because in that case, under a 15% tip actually costs the server money. As it should if they're cocking up constantly... since why should someone who fucks off and is sloppy/lazy get paid the same as someone who busts their ass making a good experience for a customer?
.

It's not a foreigners fault that American restaurants are scam joints. The menu should give the actual cost of dining there, and not a bogus price, that you are meant to stick 15% + on, or win prize money that is actually up to 8% less than stated, as a heavy demands immediate payment. Thai restaurants can give you an English menu. Why can't tourist restaurants in America, give tourists a real price? Jeez. And because the rest of the world does it different, we are rude, ignorant and bullheaded.

So what's an " ass busting good experience " ? I don't think most Euros want " Hello, my name is Brad/ Cindy, and I'm going to be your server tonight. The specials are , blah blah blah" . We want a menu that we can read, without talking to a falsely enthusiastic person who has to demean themselves by kissing our ass because their boss doesn't pay them enough. We like workers to have their dignity intact.