On this day of worship.........

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Rain Dog
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Re: On this day of worship.........

Postby Rain Dog » Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:16 pm

Jacobincambodia wrote:
MoodyMonkey wrote:What about post modern evangelicals, ecumenicals, pentecostals and interdenominational para church groups?
I'm an Evangelical. I don't think I'm so bad :)
Like I said --- I intend no offense :hattip: -- and I am certainly making some broad generalizations that would be unfair to apply to all.

That said, if you agreed with with any of the three talking points I just made in the rather lengthy post just submitted ---- or are in the business of "buying souls" I doubt we would find much common ground.
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Re: On this day of worship.........

Postby Rain Dog » Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:23 pm

General Mackevili wrote:
Rain Dog wrote:
Apologies in advance if this is too serious a topic for this forum or if I have offended anyone with my generalizations. I like thinking and talking about religion and philosophy in between beers.

:beer3:
It's great to have all sorts of discussions going on over here!



I guess I feel when I discuss religion in depth with people who have already chosen a religion, they seem to agree with any new information that supports their beliefs, and dismiss anything that doesn't.

I'm also generalizing, me thinks.

HaHa -- we all Generalize. My posts tend to turn into long rants as it is --- I think it would be far too long if I started getting into nuances. Might have just revert to +1 for anyone that makes a point I agree with. Reduce that risk of carpal tunnel anyway.

Yea lots of people have closed minds on a lot of things -- not only religion.
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Re: On this day of worship.........

Postby MoodyMonkey » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:02 pm

Some of my best friends are evangelicals. Post modern or otherwise.
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Re: On this day of worship.........

Postby Jacobincambodia » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:17 pm

Rain Dog wrote:
Jacobincambodia wrote:
MoodyMonkey wrote:What about post modern evangelicals, ecumenicals, pentecostals and interdenominational para church groups?
I'm an Evangelical. I don't think I'm so bad :)
Like I said --- I intend no offense :hattip: -- and I am certainly making some broad generalizations that would be unfair to apply to all.

That said, if you agreed with with any of the three talking points I just made in the rather lengthy post just submitted ---- or are in the business of "buying souls" I doubt we would find much common ground.
I do not agree that evangelicals should be "buying souls." Unfortunately, however, there are plenty that act like that and I really despise it. I wholeheartedly believe that most of what I believe should be shared via relationship, because that's where people are most likely to be open to discussing Christianity. Please don't view that as a ploy or a tactic that's taught to Christians. It's simply like having you over for dinner and if you have a question about why I might do something different, I'll gladly share why. Afterwards is when I turn on the music with the subliminal messages :)
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Re: On this day of worship.........

Postby Rain Dog » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:26 pm

Jacobincambodia wrote:
Rain Dog wrote:
Jacobincambodia wrote:
MoodyMonkey wrote:What about post modern evangelicals, ecumenicals, pentecostals and interdenominational para church groups?
I'm an Evangelical. I don't think I'm so bad :)
Like I said --- I intend no offense :hattip: -- and I am certainly making some broad generalizations that would be unfair to apply to all.

That said, if you agreed with with any of the three talking points I just made in the rather lengthy post just submitted ---- or are in the business of "buying souls" I doubt we would find much common ground.
I do not agree that evangelicals should be "buying souls." Unfortunately, however, there are plenty that act like that and I really despise it. I wholeheartedly believe that most of what I believe should be shared via relationship, because that's where people are most likely to be open to discussing Christianity. Please don't view that as a ploy or a tactic that's taught to Christians. It's simply like having you over for dinner and if you have a question about why I might do something different, I'll gladly share why. Afterwards is when I turn on the music with the subliminal messages :)
Fair enough ---- I think there is a difference between sharing via relationship and developing relationships specifically with a hidden agenda in mind --- but no problem with sharing your values and worldview with friends and colleagues if they are genuinely interested. The best way to lead anything is by example.

As to the Music --- you're not spinning old Led Zeppelin Discs backwards are you? Be careful. :evil:
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Re: On this day of worship.........

Postby StroppyChops » Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:23 am

Rain Dog wrote:
General Mackevili wrote:I believe in God. Unfortunately he's never introduced himself by name, and I can't decide who he is based on a bunch of different books that ALL admit they require faith to believe in.

The more a Christian studies the Bible, the more they are convinced they are right.

The more a Muslim studies the Koran, the more they are convinced they are right.

Etc...


The moment you "decide" on a religion is also the exact same moment you stop searching for "truth" and start looking for evidence to back up your decision.

This might be true for some people but not most. To my view there are three broad categories of Religious People:

1 Traditionalist) People who are born into a religion and follow but are not necessarily defined by it. These people are unlikely to be zealots but can often be influenced by negative propaganda about other faiths as it reinforces their identity. They tend to question little but are not usually contemptuous of others. From an American perspective I would say most Catholics and Traditional Protestants (Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians etc) fall into this category.

2 Tribalists) People who actively seek out a religious identity because they need it to define themselves and give themselves an identity and sense of affiliation. The most likely to be zealots and yes -- most of their "learning" is about "proving" their tribe right and other tribes wrong. From a USA perspective I would put most Southern Baptists and "Modern Evangelicals" in this category.

3) Individualist) Look at a variety of religions and sectarian differences, often with a very critical eye but generally find religion of benefit to them and take away what they can use and leave the rest behind. May eventually need the peace of mind to settle on one -- but reject dogma and can find some good in all.

Apologies in advance if this is too serious a topic for this forum or if I have offended anyone with my generalizations. I like thinking and talking about religion and philosophy in between beers.

:beer3:
I like the amount of thought you've put into that. I'm not sure where I'd rank myself on your scale, though. On one hand I'm completely radical in that I'm out to make a change without letting the establishment or dogma get in my way. On the other I have fairly fundamental (in the true sense, not the terrorist sense) beliefs. I reject institutionalised church and it's rituals as being man-created, but encounter God in nature, and often in circumstance.

Nothing offensive in your post to apologise for - nice to have a reasoned post that doesn't just tear down what others might think or believe differently to one's self.
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Re: On this day of worship.........

Postby StroppyChops » Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:25 am

Jacobincambodia wrote:I'm an Evangelical. I don't think I'm so bad :)
I'm in Jacob's tribe.
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Re: On this day of worship.........

Postby StroppyChops » Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:31 am

Rain Dog wrote:On the other hand -- Christians that go out and DEMONSTRATE the Power of Jesus as they see it, by helping the oppressed, and the poor, and leading by example will earn my respect as long as the outright proselytizing is limited.
I like this - a lot. If you ever see me do anything other than this, please tell me. And if you ever sense I'm saying anything other than "God thinks you're awesome, and wants you to know Him better", let me know about that, too. Use whatever language you find appropriate, I'll deserve it, and you won't teach me anything new (edit, as in swear words) - I'm an ex-con.
I do have a big problem with those Christian Groups that go out and "Buy Souls". I have first hand knowledge of a group in Rural Thailand offering to teach English for "Free". The only catch --- the person must first accept Jesus as his Personal Savior and undergo a Baptism. If not --- "Sorry -- No English Lessons for You"

I regard these types of groups with utter contempt.
I have contempt for the "rice Christian" approach to evangelism (literally, I'll feed you rice if you become a Christian --- specifically in the form that I want you to) and am deeply frustrated by those that use it. Particularly when western egos are at play.
Jacobincambodia wrote:I do not agree that evangelicals should be "buying souls." Unfortunately, however, there are plenty that act like that and I really despise it. I wholeheartedly believe that most of what I believe should be shared via relationship, because that's where people are most likely to be open to discussing Christianity. Please don't view that as a ploy or a tactic that's taught to Christians. It's simply like having you over for dinner and if you have a question about why I might do something different, I'll gladly share why. Afterwards is when I turn on the music with the subliminal messages :)
That. My view is that my faith is my business. If you're interested and ask, I'll share it with you. You'll know I'm a Christian not because I wear a badge or am different on Sundays, but because I don't shy away from discussions like this one, and hopefully the way I live my life demonstrates the values Christ demonstrated. If I've gotta preach it because I'm not living it, I should keep my mouth shut.
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Re: On this day of worship.........

Postby Rain Dog » Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:39 pm

StroppyChops wrote:
I like this - a lot. If you ever see me do anything other than this, please tell me. And if you ever sense I'm saying anything other than "God thinks you're awesome, and wants you to know Him better", let me know about that, too. Use whatever language you find appropriate, I'll deserve it, and you won't teach me anything new (edit, as in swear words) - I'm an ex-con. ................... That. My view is that my faith is my business. If you're interested and ask, I'll share it with you. You'll know I'm a Christian not because I wear a badge or am different on Sundays, but because I don't shy away from discussions like this one, and hopefully the way I live my life demonstrates the values Christ demonstrated. If I've gotta preach it because I'm not living it, I should keep my mouth shut.

Good Stuff Stroppy. And no worries --- It's not my place to play the role of policing evangelicals lol.

I do admit when I hear the term "Evangelical" immediate negative images come to my mind. A lot of that comes from how politicized the Evangelical movement(s) in the USA are --- and I get images of people pointing up at the sky when their team scores a touch down, and "God Loves the USA" every-time we bomb some place for it's oil, on behalf of Israel (or both). Add to this the rampant hate-mongering (Muslims and Arabs get the worst of it, but there is plenty reserved for other faiths and groups too), and some almost Hitleresque speeches from the likes of John Hagee, Franklin Graham and others. That said I know it's unfair to paint everyone with the same brush.

If you are interested, I am essentially a deist(and part pan-deist) but I differ from those ideologies because they reject all forms of "revelation" whereas I believe that if some people are spiritually attuned enough they can tap into divinely inspired messages emanating from the original creator of all things. I think all religions contain divinely inspired spiritual truths but also are corrupted because no one is capable of truly understanding the divine plus it is simply human nature to f*ck things up.

To that end I have studied most of the main religions and drawn out 7 values from them that I try to incorporate them into my own life. As to the rest of the dogma that every religion has, I largely treat it as a mystery not to be worried about -- we will either find out in any possible afterlife (or not, as the case may be) whether it be the Old Roman notions of "Never-ending Sleep without dreams" , achieving Nirvana, or Monotheistic notions of Heaven or Paradise. Happy to discuss more (or not) depending on interest.

BTW despite all my posting on this topic I am not particularly religious in any outward form although I have long been fascinated by the topic. In fact I probably drink too much beer, and can occasionally be found toasting a jokra Mooey with one of the Pretty lasses in PPs hostess bars -- and I find no hypocrisy in that.

Also since I have been critical of others, I should show I can criticize myself too. I waste far too much time on spurious things and most of my own spirituality is inward focused in terms of how I engage and interact with the world. I think its great if you are externalizing by truly helping others in a non dogmatic, non preachy, and non profiteering way.

Cheers,

RD.
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The Rum pours strong and thin. Beat out the dustman with the Rain Dogs;
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Re: On this day of worship.........

Postby StroppyChops » Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:16 pm

Enjoyed your post, RD.
Rain Dog wrote:BTW despite all my posting on this topic I am not particularly religious in any outward form although I have long been fascinated by the topic. In fact I probably drink too much beer, and can occasionally be found toasting a jokra Mooey with one of the Pretty lasses in PPs hostess bars -- and I find no hypocrisy in that.
By the sound of it you are more of a theologian than most - nice to hear anyone elucidate their beliefs so clearly. Personally I have no judgement for working girls and those who enjoyed their company - neither did Christ, from memory, other than deep compassion.
Also since I have been critical of others, I should show I can criticize myself too. I waste far too much time on spurious things and most of my own spirituality is inward focused in terms of how I engage and interact with the world. I think its great if you are externalizing by truly helping others in a non dogmatic, non preachy, and non profiteering way.
I'm certainly no saint, but I figure if we all did a little more if this and a little less sermonising the world might just end up a little better.
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