I agree that $30 a month is a disgrace. Especially if they didn't tell him that at the outset of the interviewing process. "Probationary employees" should not be treated like shit.

That said, Samouth' rants about the fucking guests and bastard guests and requirements to stand up and smile show him to be unreasonable and unfit for a customer service position in the industry.

Your suggestion that Asian hotel executives are less likely to have started out at the bottom is an interesting one, it may be true, I don't know. Raffles is an international company, I would hope they wouldn't hire inexperienced managers and directors in Cambodia because they are the sons of generals.

I agree that Samouth went off a bit. A lot of the staff in Cambodia get the better jobs based on English ability. For example, a smart guy with no formal training but very good English would have no problem getting into a front desk position, as opposed to a guy who studied accounting and couldn't speak much English. The guy in accounting would be stuck there until he improved his English, but the fluent guy could get by just by acquiring the job skills as he went along.

I think you'd be surprised at the number of staff at top hotels that can't speak English. I don't know about all hotels, but I do know of one top hotel, that until about 3 years ago, didn't have an English proficiency test when recruiting staff. Bit negligent, imho.

A cousin of the wife got on a free training course for poor, young Cambodians to train in the hospitality industry (only child, dad did a runner etc etc). 60 odd students quickly whittled down to a dozen as they were 'busy to study'. At the end of the course 6 were left and sent out to work in hotels in PP.

A couple of years later (and after being paid a pittance as a trainee) he's still working in the laundry of a big hotel, which might not be the best job in the universe, but as an uneducated village youth he gets $200 + a month, with tips and meals. Not an amazing sum, but gives him a life in the big city, a phone, moto and gets to help his old mother. Something most of the working age gangster wannabe males in the area are incapable of.

Perhaps the dropouts left because it was exploitative.

Glad to see he has something, albeit nothing fantastic, horrible being out of work. I suggest he tries to improve his English, only real way out of there. I can give you some free materials if you like.

I personally don't think anyone should ever work for free. I'm pretty sure even Medecins sans Frontiers get paid a living wage, I know some of the Red Cross 'volunteers' from Australia in Cambodia were getting pretty decent salaries and benefits compared to locals and even some locally-recruited expats.

I also think free training in the case you mentioned above is a little different to a genuine job. I'm not sure what the Labour Law says regarding free training at a hotel over an extended period of time, I think a short course is permitted. Anyone?

His English is OK, it was part of the course. Was a Don Bosco style thing, but don't know if it was the Don or not now.

Anyways, it's interesting to see how many kids don't take opportunities handed out to them, it's the same all over the world, but most frustrating here as the situation is more extreme. Many choose to drink rice wine and smoke yamma, slowly bleeding their impoverished parents dry.

I think both sides of the issue are missing a key point. There are two points here. First off, samouth is indeed making himself come off as a typical Khmer (male) employee. I hate to say it, but I tend to agree with Gavinmac that in Cambodia, the hospitality industry is dominated by women for a reason: they're way better at it. He also seems to assume it was a very difficult job, when it's probably pretty low on the difficulty spectrum. He doesn't seem to understand that Raffles strives to be "better" than the average Cambodian guesthouse, and as such comes off as slightly lazy and clueless.

HOWEVER, paying $30 per month on a probationary period?! That's complete bullshit and even the likes of Macnivag can agree with that. The only reason it's not illegal is probably because (I'm assuming) employers can pay staff whatever they want during "probationary periods". I'm assuming there's also a legal limit to the amount of time one can be "on trial". Either way, $30 per month is a joke and a total embarrassment to Raffles (no wonder their staff stole from that general a while back). No one can survive on that type of money, even with the free meals. As LTO said, I pay ditch diggers way more than triple that.

Implying that it's ok because it's an "apprenticeship" is equally laughable. I think there's confusion in terminology here. If you're an apprentice perfecting your skills in plumbing or photography, it makes sense. But an entry-level hotel job? You've got to be joking... Is upward mobility possible? It most likely is, but that shouldn't detract from the fact that Raffles thought it acceptable to pay employees $30/month.

Kampong Spooner wrote:His English is OK, it was part of the course. Was a Don Bosco style thing, but don't know if it was the Don or not now.

Anyways, it's interesting to see how many kids don't take opportunities handed out to them, it's the same all over the world, but most frustrating here as the situation is more extreme. Many choose to drink rice wine and smoke yamma, slowly bleeding their impoverished parents dry.

or live off the backs of their girl friends

Vlad; i worked for tourists publications alot in Thailand and for 8 months in Cambodia,

front desk staff, first point of contact for 85% of guests,

Thailand barely could speak passable English yet many had unvi degrees in English.

Cambodia, ( i only dealt with 4-5 star hotels in the kingdom) most spoke good english, very polite an trained in customer service.

Burma on the other hand had many English speakers and yet most staff are paid peanuts, I know one GM of a small ( 40 room hotel ) in Mandalay, he makes $250/month and he considers that good wages!!

The way i see it comparing the 2, Thais are shy to speak English ( yet can read an write) for fear of making mistakes, the Khmers are not as shy.

Anywhere in the world now adays
Starting at the bottom in the hotel world /restaurant business is a good career choice if one does not have the $$ for a good college

phuketrichard wrote:

Samouth wrote:

reflexline wrote:Again, you're a moron. Presumably a fixed mindset bible bashing moron.

Really, you don't want it to stop right here. You stupid pillock, grumpy twat.

more an more samouth is starting to sound like someones sock puppet.
either that ur u have led an incredibly protected life and do not know half as much about life as u think u do.

we all started out with shitty jobs but i bet most of us did not have mommy and daddy paying their bills so they could attend college. My own daughter stated work within 6 months of moving away from home,even thou i told her i would cover everything. ( i assume u lived at home all thru college as well?)
she knew she needed experience in the real world an wanted to help me out.

The only thing i do agree with is the $30, but it sure did get rid of him which i guess is the reason for the small salary
they want the people that look at the big picture and a future with Raffles,
which would be fantastic to have on your resume'

PS; the article quoted was written in 2004 an has zero relevancy now.

First, I am not a sock puppet. I am who i am. How do you expect me to react when someone call me stupid and moron while i did nothing to him.

So your daughter started working 6 months after she moved away from home and she refused your sponsorship, so you thought she is great and assuming that i lived with my parents when i was at college. By saying this, you actually underestimated about me and gave me no credit. I moved away from my family since i was at high school, even though my family still support me at the time, but it was still hard as i had to live by my own. Then when i moved to study in Phnom Penh, i also lived by myself, started working with decent job when i was in three years and never asked money from my family back then.

I really don't understand, if you have a better choice than starting with shitty job, why can't you just do the better one.

juansweetpotato wrote:

Samouth wrote:
My family is not really rich, but in the middle class,

I was just thinking what does that even mean in Cambodia? 10 years ago getting 100$ a month would have seated you firmly in the middle class. Now, a middle class Cambodian can probably afford a car that a middle class American couldn't.

My family doesn't have car either, but we have regular income. I think they actually afford to have car, but just they are living in the province and thought it is not really practical as having motorbike is enough.

StroppyChops wrote:

juansweetpotato wrote:Your a pedant but quite correct.

Playboy wrote:I tend not to go all grammer Nazi, over comments written by people for whom English is a second language.

Yeah, nah, "your" both right, it's not as though I posted that as humour.

I bet Samouth realised I was joking.

It is fine. It is not my mother tongue. i don't really care. Imagine if you guys have to write khmer.