US Senate - Torture Report

bong.kuit · Post by **bong.kuit** » Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:43 pm

... cause that's the way we like to do it!

thank you, us-government, for bringing democracy (and music like this) to the world!

YouTube · Post by **General Mackevili** » Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:28 pm

LTO wrote:
General Mackevili wrote:
LTO wrote:
Sir_Quality_U_Feel wrote:If you don't have anything to hide, you don't have to worry. I'm glad we do what's needed to get shit done .
Heh.
That statement might very well be my biggest pet peeve in life.

Although it does seem popular, which explains why America is heading in its current direction.
I assume he's being sarcastic. It's kind of amusing to see this dubious old anti-4th Amendment argument applied to torture, as if you have nothing to fear from being tortured so long you have nothing to hide.

I hope you're right.

Many say it seriously.

vladimir · Post by **vladimir** » Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:33 pm

bong.kuit wrote:thank you, us-government, for bringing democracy (and music like this) to the world!

The US is not a true democracy.

But you knew that, right?

Ignorance is bliss.

LTO · Post by **LTO** » Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:47 pm

General Mackevili wrote:I hope you're right.

Many say it seriously.

While I understand (though I dont agree) how the 'if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear' argument can be made about anti-Constitutional (illegal) search and seizure, evidence collection, surveillance, etc., it makes no sense when talking about torture because whether you have something to hide or not, being tortured is still a fearful thing. It's one thing to say, "if you have nothing to hide you should not fear being searched to prove it" and quite another to say "if you have nothing to hide you should not fear being tortured to prove it."

vladimir · Post by **vladimir** » Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:03 pm

And of course such a statement carries with it the implicit belief that the authorities are always moral/scrupulous in the carrying out of their duties, no David and Bathsheba possible in the US, no sirree.

bong.kuit · Post by **bong.kuit** » Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:32 pm

Easy, vlad. I'm on your side. Was the sarcasm not obvious enough?

OTOH, funny how North Korea and China now use the report to criticize the US. I guess their torture report will be released soon as well.

BOFH · Post by **BOFH** » Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:40 pm

LTO wrote:While I understand (though I dont agree) how the 'if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear' argument can be made about anti-Constitutional (illegal) search and seizure, evidence collection, surveillance, etc., it makes no sense when talking about torture because whether you have something to hide or not, being tortured is still a fearful thing. It's one thing to say, "if you have nothing to hide you should not fear being searched to prove it" and quite another to say "if you have nothing to hide you should not fear being tortured to prove it."

Let's not forget the fifth amendment. The prisoners have not even been charged. Or do you disagree with this argument as well?

YouTube · Post by **General Mackevili** » Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:49 pm

LTO wrote:
General Mackevili wrote:I hope you're right.

Many say it seriously.
While I understand (though I dont agree) how the 'if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear' argument can be made about anti-Constitutional (illegal) search and seizure, evidence collection, surveillance, etc., it makes no sense when talking about torture because whether you have something to hide or not, being tortured is still a fearful thing. It's one thing to say, "if you have nothing to hide you should not fear being searched to prove it" and quite another to say "if you have nothing to hide you should not fear being tortured to prove it."

Definitely different, I'm just afraid that whole attitude is the problem for all those things.

If you don't have anything to hide, don't worry about random searches.... If you're not a terrorist, don't worry about being tortured...

LTO · Post by **LTO** » Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:53 pm

BOFH wrote:
LTO wrote:While I understand (though I dont agree) how the 'if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear' argument can be made about anti-Constitutional (illegal) search and seizure, evidence collection, surveillance, etc., it makes no sense when talking about torture because whether you have something to hide or not, being tortured is still a fearful thing. It's one thing to say, "if you have nothing to hide you should not fear being searched to prove it" and quite another to say "if you have nothing to hide you should not fear being tortured to prove it."
Let's not forget the fifth amendment. The prisoners have not even been charged. Or do you disagree with this argument as well?

Note that I did not specifically cite the 4th Amendment in this post, but threw in a sloppy catch-all 'etc' to include the infringement of any constitutional right that someone may try to justify with the 'if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear' argument.

Don't quite understand...do I disagree with what argument?

Soi Dog · Post by **Soi Dog** » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:00 pm

While my car was being serviced, I had to sit through a TV show repeat called "Celebrity Big Brother" being shown in the repair shop waiting room at high volume. Talk about torture. Someone should write up a report on that shit.

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