Race does not exist

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Anchor Moy
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Race does not exist

Post by Anchor Moy »

We know this but it bears repeating:

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015 ... mes-darwin

Extract:
We now know that the way we talk about race has no scientific validity. There is no genetic basis that corresponds with any particular group of people, no essentialist DNA for black people or white people or anyone. This is not a hippy ideal, it’s a fact. There are genetic characteristics that associate with certain populations, but none of these is exclusive, nor correspond uniquely with any one group that might fit a racial epithet. Regional adaptations are real, but these tend to express difference within so-called races, not between them. Sickle-cell anaemia affects people of all skin colours because it has evolved where malaria is common. Tibetans are genetically adapted to high altitude, rendering Chinese residents of Beijing more similar to Europeans than their superficially similar neighbours. Tay-Sachs disease, once thought to be a “Jewish disease”, is as common in French Canadians and Cajuns. And so it goes on.

Race doesn’t exist, racism does. But we can now confine it to opinions and not pretend that there might be any scientific validity in bigotry.
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LTO
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Re: Race does not exist

Post by LTO »

This wouldn't seem to show that "race does not exist" but that race as genetically distinct categories does not exist.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-04-26/f ... ted/411384
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Anchor Moy
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Re: Race does not exist

Post by Anchor Moy »

According to the biological definition of race, only members of the same race or species can mate and reproduce reproductive offspring.
1. All humans living today belong to a single species, Homo sapiens, and share a common descent. Although there are differences of opinion regarding how and where different human groups diverged or fused to form new ones from a common ancestral group, all living populations in each of the earth's geographic areas have evolved from that ancestral group over the same amount of time. Much of the biological variation among populations involves modest degrees of variation in the frequency of shared traits. Human populations have at times been isolated, but have never genetically diverged enough to produce any biological barriers to mating between members of different population
http://physanth.org/about/position-stat ... ects-race/#

So it really doesn't matter what you look like; if you can make babies together, then you belong to the same "race". (Even if you're really ugly :crazy: )
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StroppyChops
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Re: Race does not exist

Post by StroppyChops »

Sounds like the Ubuntu ethos - we're all brown, really.
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LTO
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Re: Race does not exist

Post by LTO »

Anchor Moy wrote:According to the biological definition of race, only members of the same race or species can mate and reproduce reproductive offspring.
I think you are confused. 'Race' and 'species' are not interchangeable terms. Even at the late 19th century/early 20th century height of dubious genetic/racial studies, 'species' was widely defined in part as 'the members of which can, through reproduction, produce viable offspring,' whereas 'race' never included that defining characteristic for the obvious reason that members of different races can produce viable offspring. Even hardcore racists aren't stupid enough to define race in a manner that contradicts the readily apparent everyday reality that members of different races "can mate and reproduce reproductive offspring."

Looking a little more strawman with each post.
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Re: Race does not exist

Post by General Chatter »

I think the term sub species applies here....

in ecology there is no problem defining the differences between the Siberian sub species of tiger and the Borneo sub species...if they mate will they produce viable offspring?
Yes they would ,but still are consider separate and distinct....
It's a stupid article ....
If we apply sound ecological management to humans ....some groups would be found to be invasive...and need controlling....just like knott weed in Europe or the bramble bush and red fox two name but two in Oz....
Last edited by General Chatter on Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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MekongMouse
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Re: Race does not exist

Post by MekongMouse »

Kind of an empty article and it completely ignores that while "race" as they define it doesn't exist, ethnicity certainly does.
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Re: Race does not exist

Post by CaliforniaGuy »

Always a difficult subject to talk about, but I think ecotype is a better biological description. If a population is isolated long enough it's characteristics will change, as with skin color and UV radiation. And that isolation is certainly disappearing today. I once had a history professor who stated all racial problems are eventually solved in the bedroom, and this seems to be what is happening today. As the world becomes less and less isolated, and people move from place to place both race and ethnicity become less of an obstacle to that bedroom cooperation, producing beautiful children who don't understand what all this race talk is about.
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Re: Race does not exist

Post by renton555 »

I really don't think "phrenology" style racism is the issue anymore. The writer seems to be countering an argument that most racists of today do not even attempt to make. Few are trying to make a scientific argument that some races are inferior to others. Most of the racists of today are people who mistake socio-economic characteristics with inherent ones. I grew up near the tri-state borders between Tennessee, Georgia, and Mississippi, and definitely have many anecdotal accounts of this sort of racism. I think that a big step in alleviating racial antagonism is to honestly confront the real socio-economic reasons why some races aren't excelling on the level of others. This is, of course, a sensitive conversation to have, and most leftists check this discussion at the door in an effort to avoid talking about anything that could be a little politically incorrect. And then the problems perpetuate.
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