Is it normal for electric shower heaters not to be grounded?

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frank lee bent
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Re: Is it normal for electric shower heaters not to be grounded?

Post by frank lee bent » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:20 am

I think i mentioned here before i had a fuckwit electrician hook one of these up in oz and the pvc supply pipe melted when he did it wrong.

Found out later the cunt had a metal plate in his head.

Luckily i was not standing under it.
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Re: Is it normal for electric shower heaters not to be grounded?

Post by Fourkinnel » Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm

beaker wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:04 am
Install a GFCI outlet then plug your heater into that, easy, cheap protection.

Image

A GFCI outlet is an electrical outlet which is designed to protect people from deadly electric shock. In addition to preventing electrocution, GFCI outlets can also reduce the risk of house fires caused by electrical problems, and reduce damage to appliances caused by faulty electrical circuits. These outlets use ground fault circuit interrupter (GFCI or GFI) technology; it is also possible to install a GFCI at the breaker box, or to use a portable GFCI device.

The way in which these outlets work is rather ingenious. The GFCI outlet monitors the flow of energy through the circuit. If an imbalance between the “hot” and “neutral” poles in the circuit occurs, indicating that there is a ground fault, the outlet trips off. Ground faults can be caused by a wide variety of things, including a human being touching an energized part of the circuit, and this can be deadly. A classic example of a ground fault which has been utilized as a plot device in numerous films is a hair dryer which falls into the bathtub, turning the water in the tub into part of the electrical circuit and electrocuting the unfortunate occupant.
Or more commonly known in UK as a RCD. More interesting stuff here,
https://www.explainthatstuff.com/howrcdswork.html

RCD does not necessarily require an earth connection itself (it monitors only the live and neutral).In addition it detects current flows to earth even in equipment without an earth of its own. This means that an RCD will continue to give shock protection in equipment that has a faulty earth.
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Re: Is it normal for electric shower heaters not to be grounded?

Post by timmydownawell » Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:45 pm

Fourkinnel wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm

Or more commonly known in UK as a RCD. More interesting stuff here,
https://www.explainthatstuff.com/howrcdswork.html

RCD does not necessarily require an earth connection itself (it monitors only the live and neutral).In addition it detects current flows to earth even in equipment without an earth of its own. This means that an RCD will continue to give shock protection in equipment that has a faulty earth.
Interesting read, thanks.

My Panasonic hot shower has an ELB (or ELCB “Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker”)

I made sure my electrics all got earthed when my wiring was done. Interesting to note that without a proper earth connection, ELCB will not work.
https://www.electricaltechnology.org/20 ... b-rcd.html
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Re: Is it normal for electric shower heaters not to be grounded?

Post by StroppyChops » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:50 pm

timmydownawell wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:45 pm
Fourkinnel wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm

Or more commonly known in UK as a RCD. More interesting stuff here,
https://www.explainthatstuff.com/howrcdswork.html

RCD does not necessarily require an earth connection itself (it monitors only the live and neutral).In addition it detects current flows to earth even in equipment without an earth of its own. This means that an RCD will continue to give shock protection in equipment that has a faulty earth.
Interesting read, thanks.

My Panasonic hot shower has an ELB (or ELCB “Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker”)

I made sure my electrics all got earthed when my wiring was done. Interesting to note that without a proper earth connection, ELCB will not work.
https://www.electricaltechnology.org/20 ... b-rcd.html
How confident are you of that? The Panasonic heaters I've installed only have two electrical wires for connection...
Bodge: This ain't Kansas, and the neighbours ate Toto!
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Re: Is it normal for electric shower heaters not to be grounded?

Post by cptrelentless » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:26 pm

Those Panasonics are 3.5kW, so you need a 16A feed on them. The Cambodians always wire up their houses with 10A uninsulated cabling (1.5mm2 if you're lucky). So it will trip the switch if they've put the usual 10A breaker in. They generally wire it up in spoke fashion, rather than a ring, so their'll be a spaghetti nest of cables in your main fuse box. One of those will be the shower feed.
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Re: Is it normal for electric shower heaters not to be grounded?

Post by explorer » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:21 am

StroppyChops wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:50 pm
timmydownawell wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:45 pm
Fourkinnel wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm

Or more commonly known in UK as a RCD. More interesting stuff here,
https://www.explainthatstuff.com/howrcdswork.html

RCD does not necessarily require an earth connection itself (it monitors only the live and neutral).In addition it detects current flows to earth even in equipment without an earth of its own. This means that an RCD will continue to give shock protection in equipment that has a faulty earth.
Interesting read, thanks.

My Panasonic hot shower has an ELB (or ELCB “Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker”)

I made sure my electrics all got earthed when my wiring was done. Interesting to note that without a proper earth connection, ELCB will not work.
https://www.electricaltechnology.org/20 ... b-rcd.html
How confident are you of that? The Panasonic heaters I've installed only have two electrical wires for connection...
There are two different types.

An earth leakage circuit breaker or ELCB trips when the current in the earth wire creates a magnetic field and turns off the power. This only works when there is an earth wire.

A residual current device or RCD depends on the current in the active and neutral wires creating two opposing magnetic fields. When the current in one wire is greater than the current in the other, one magnetic field is greater than the other. This turns off the power. This works without an earth wire.
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Re: Is it normal for electric shower heaters not to be grounded?

Post by timmydownawell » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:07 am

StroppyChops wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:50 pm
timmydownawell wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:45 pm
Fourkinnel wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm

Or more commonly known in UK as a RCD. More interesting stuff here,
https://www.explainthatstuff.com/howrcdswork.html

RCD does not necessarily require an earth connection itself (it monitors only the live and neutral).In addition it detects current flows to earth even in equipment without an earth of its own. This means that an RCD will continue to give shock protection in equipment that has a faulty earth.
Interesting read, thanks.

My Panasonic hot shower has an ELB (or ELCB “Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker”)

I made sure my electrics all got earthed when my wiring was done. Interesting to note that without a proper earth connection, ELCB will not work.
https://www.electricaltechnology.org/20 ... b-rcd.html
How confident are you of that? The Panasonic heaters I've installed only have two electrical wires for connection...
Quite confident:

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StroppyChops
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Re: Is it normal for electric shower heaters not to be grounded?

Post by StroppyChops » Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:57 pm

timmydownawell wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:07 am
StroppyChops wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:50 pm
How confident are you of that? The Panasonic heaters I've installed only have two electrical wires for connection...
Quite confident:

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Yep, fair 'nuff.
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Re: Is it normal for electric shower heaters not to be grounded?

Post by rasputin » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:05 pm

I couldn't resist telling about a related experience I had at a hostel in Ukraine in 2016. On the ground floor the building had a wing with a kitchen and a shower room. The kitchen and shower room were only a few feet apart. There was a utility closet of sorts in between them, as I recall. The kitchen had a concrete floor. I went in there barefoot once, touched the metal sink and got a massive shock. Not a tingle, more of a Sing Sing Electric Chair feeling. Told the desk, don't know if it made any difference.

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Re: Is it normal for electric shower heaters not to be grounded?

Post by Cam Nivag » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:52 pm

cptrelentless wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:26 pm
Those Panasonics are 3.5kW, so you need a 16A feed on them. The Cambodians always wire up their houses with 10A uninsulated cabling (1.5mm2 if you're lucky). So it will trip the switch if they've put the usual 10A breaker in. They generally wire it up in spoke fashion, rather than a ring, so their'll be a spaghetti nest of cables in your main fuse box. One of those will be the shower feed.
Yeah, the landlord came back with an electrician and he changed it from a 10A breaker to 16A. When the work was complete, the electrician and landlord left, without ever checking that it worked.

It didn't. I went from having power to the electric heater for 60 seconds at a time to having no power at all to it after the "fix."

Called again and they came back and fixed it again and now it's working and doesn't trip the breaker and hasn't electrocuted me yet.
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