Modest Proposal 2

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Otis
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Re: Modest Proposal 2

Post by Otis » Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:07 pm

I'd be please to do something like that. Alas, I've just left Cambo, am in Tland and will soon return to the RW [real world] as we say in jest. But I regularly come back to Cambodia and will be pleased to meet up w. you on something like this when I do.
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LTO
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Re: Modest Proposal 2

Post by LTO » Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:16 pm

Otis wrote:Your suggestion here? Stroppy's suggestion here h?

The ears of the world await.
The world is awaiting my solution to the drug abuse problem? I'll post on that right after I finish developing my solutions to poverty and war. In the meantime, if you are looking for a some stopgap measures, I would first try to make sure whatever it is, it actually helps the victims and isn't being done just to make me feel like I'm doing something regardless of the actual effects. That is a recipe for disaster. Most importantly, as Hippocrates said, "Before all else, do no harm." 

As mentioned above, I am concerned that simply forcefully taking away their in-hand drug supply would do little but force them into a position where they have to replace that supply, possibly increasing the risk to them (having to find more funds by whatever means and reacquire drugs) and increasing their distress, while not actually reducing their drug use. I may be wrong about that, but I think some very careful thought needs to be put to the possible impact before rushing out and doing something for the sake of doing something.

I would be inclined to do something more along the lines of what Stroppy is suggesting - trying to tend to some of their more immediate and pressing needs, some of the things that may be contributing to their desire to sniff glue - e.g. food, medicine, water, toiletries/cleanliness (perhaps but not necessarily on an exchange basis), situation assessment, advice (or even assistance) on where/how to find shelter and additional help (perhaps Friends or another NGO.)
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StroppyChops
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Re: Modest Proposal 2

Post by StroppyChops » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:03 am

Otis wrote:I'd be please to do something like that. Alas, I've just left Cambo, am in Tland and will soon return to the RW [real world] as we say in jest. But I regularly come back to Cambodia and will be pleased to meet up w. you on something like this when I do.
Great. Let's make it a group project, see how many CEOers we can get involved.
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Re: Modest Proposal 2

Post by Soi Dog » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:20 am

LTO wrote:
Otis wrote:Your suggestion here? Stroppy's suggestion here h?
The ears of the world await.
The world is awaiting my solution to the drug abuse problem? I'll post on that right after I finish developing my solutions to poverty and war.
Since you are working on a solution to the world's societal ills, can you also do something about queue jumpers? I hate queue jumpers more than glue sniffers.
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LTO
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Re: Modest Proposal 2

Post by LTO » Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:39 am

Soi Dog wrote:Since you are working on a solution to the world's societal ills, can you also do something about queue jumpers? I hate queue jumpers more than glue sniffers.
Place your stuff on the counter with theirs, smile and thank them for stepping forward to pay your bill. Make a big deal about how polite and generous Cambodians are for buying things for foreigners like that. Perhaps cap it off with a "I really do feel like an honored guest in your country."
Last edited by LTO on Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Modest Proposal 2

Post by Soi Dog » Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:40 am

StroppyChops wrote:
Otis wrote:I'd be please to do something like that. Alas, I've just left Cambo, am in Tland and will soon return to the RW [real world] as we say in jest. But I regularly come back to Cambodia and will be pleased to meet up w. you on something like this when I do.
Great. Let's make it a group project, see how many CEOers we can get involved.
You will want to take other measures to avoid the appearance of impropriety with children beyond the female observer. Being seen going up to multiple street kids and perhaps leaving with them makes for a damning series of still pictures, regardless of your charitable intentions. My advice is to form an alliance with an existing NGO or two and possibly APLE before taking it to the streets.

And think this through. Say your team snatches the glue bag from a group of 11 year-olds. They react violently; kicking, biting and screaming. A crowd gathers. You are forced to defend yourselves. The crowd misunderstands the situation and sides with the kids. The tense situation escalates...

That is just as likely an outcome as one in which the grateful, doe-eyed street kids humbly accept your intervention after a good free meal and an new pair of flip flops. What will you do with these kids 4 hours after they accept food from you? Take them somewhere they can shower? Then back on the streets?

I think you will see the dilemma LTO brings up in short order. You can brush aside questions of "Then what?" while talking in the abstract, but not so much when making concrete plans for action. Should make for a few interesting threads to come, though. Good luck.
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Re: Modest Proposal 2

Post by EdinWigan » Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:36 am

This is a very difficult issue, with not immediate or obvious solution, on which to base a plan. That is not to say a solution and therefore plan, is not possible, it is just we can't see it yet. I would think I a sustainable, reward based, diversionary activity could form part of the solution.

With that in mind, who has the money and problem? and knowing that , you can begin to model a solution.
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LTO
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Re: Modest Proposal 2

Post by LTO » Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:43 am

Soi Dog wrote:My advice is to form an alliance with an existing NGO or two and possibly APLE before taking it to the streets.
While I think it would be a good idea to notify APLE of the project so the good Samaritans involved don't end up in Prey Sar, I wouldn't bother trying to form an alliance with APLE. APLE is not in the business of helping children. In fact they have been known to allow children to remain in harms way in order to achieve their objective, which is pretty much exclusively busting white men for pedophilia related activities. If an alliance is to be formed, better to approach an NGO that has some expertise and is interested in helping kids such as Friends. They could probably also offer some good advice. There are probably other NGOs out there as well though I don't know any off the top of my head.
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Re: Modest Proposal 2

Post by Soi Dog » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:14 am

LTO wrote:
Soi Dog wrote:My advice is to form an alliance with an existing NGO or two and possibly APLE before taking it to the streets.
While I think it would be a good idea to notify APLE of the project so the good Samaritans involved don't end up in Prey Sar, I wouldn't bother trying to form an alliance with APLE. APLE is not in the business of helping children. In fact they have been known to allow children to remain in harms way in order to achieve their objective, which is pretty much exclusively busting white men for pedophilia related activities. If an alliance is to be formed, better to approach an NGO that has some expertise and is interested in helping kids such as Friends. They could probably also offer some good advice. There are probably other NGOs out there as well though I don't know any off the top of my head.
I agree with your dim view of APLE in it's current form, but that organization is well overdue for a change of focus...and maybe, just maybe, our good Samaritans could have even more of a positive impact by getting a high profile, well funded outfit like APLE to diversify into actually helping desperate street kids. If nothing else, it would look good on their fund-raising event slide show presentations.
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Re: Modest Proposal 2

Post by kiwiincambodia » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:11 am

LTO wrote:Place your stuff on the counter with theirs, smile and thank them for stepping forward to pay your bill. Make a big deal about how polite and generous Cambodians are for buying things for foreigners like that. Perhaps cap it off with a "I really do feel like an honored guest in your country."
This is brilliant. I might try it today just for shits and giggles.
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