Mama's a thief

explorer · Post by **explorer** » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:19 pm

StroppyChops wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:43 pm Just to give a little perspective on local thinking, for those who don't already know...

A young lady very close to me was trafficked as the eldest daughter by her mother, ostensibly to feed the rest of the family (yeah right), and when her obligation was bought by others to secure her release the mother immediately arranged a marriage and started receiving a "stipend" from the groom-to-be's family in anticipation of the event. We guided the young lady through putting an end to that, and she later brought all of her sisters except one to be nearer to us to prevent the mother from selling them. The mother would not release the one that remained in the village, as she is there to do the work and tend the cows - in this case, we can't save them all.

Now that the young lady is responsible for the care of three younger siblings - all of their care - you'd expect mother to leave her alone to do so. But no, she'd still get regular phone calls from mother demanding she Wing all of her money to mother, which she would obediently do, leaving no money for food, housing, schooling, medical etc. until next pay day. We had to step in and put an end to that. The mother has a dozen cows and owns the family land, so isn't as poor as you'd think.

Young lady is now pregnant, and her mother has in all seriousness laid claim to the unborn child once weaned (known to be a boy) to be her servant in later years. The young lady now has sufficient agency to be able to say that won't be happening.

Yes, there's an argument that retirement here is in the form of the children serving the parents, but there's a line between family service and servitude.

When we first arrived, a Khmer lady who works in justice patiently and repeatedly explained to us that Khmer mothers just don't love their children in the way we are familiar with. And then others started telling us the same. We struggled to accept this, until we saw (as previously stated in this thread) that children truly are just commodities in many families. Obviously that's a gross over-generalisation and most of our Khmer friends spoil and dote on their children, but it's fair to say that is true in many cases. Some argue that it's a result of societal damage from the genocide, others that it's just cultural difference.

It is no longer politically correct to run orphanages, or call them children's homes.

But when you see what happens in some families, the only way to give the children a decent chance in life, is to get them away from the family.

I believe there will be a need for children's homes for a long time to come. Lets call them boarding schools.

khmerhamster · Post by **khmerhamster** » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:41 pm

explorer wrote:
StroppyChops wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:43 pm Just to give a little perspective on local thinking, for those who don't already know...

A young lady very close to me was trafficked as the eldest daughter by her mother, ostensibly to feed the rest of the family (yeah right), and when her obligation was bought by others to secure her release the mother immediately arranged a marriage and started receiving a "stipend" from the groom-to-be's family in anticipation of the event. We guided the young lady through putting an end to that, and she later brought all of her sisters except one to be nearer to us to prevent the mother from selling them. The mother would not release the one that remained in the village, as she is there to do the work and tend the cows - in this case, we can't save them all.

Now that the young lady is responsible for the care of three younger siblings - all of their care - you'd expect mother to leave her alone to do so. But no, she'd still get regular phone calls from mother demanding she Wing all of her money to mother, which she would obediently do, leaving no money for food, housing, schooling, medical etc. until next pay day. We had to step in and put an end to that. The mother has a dozen cows and owns the family land, so isn't as poor as you'd think.

Young lady is now pregnant, and her mother has in all seriousness laid claim to the unborn child once weaned (known to be a boy) to be her servant in later years. The young lady now has sufficient agency to be able to say that won't be happening.

Yes, there's an argument that retirement here is in the form of the children serving the parents, but there's a line between family service and servitude.

When we first arrived, a Khmer lady who works in justice patiently and repeatedly explained to us that Khmer mothers just don't love their children in the way we are familiar with. And then others started telling us the same. We struggled to accept this, until we saw (as previously stated in this thread) that children truly are just commodities in many families. Obviously that's a gross over-generalisation and most of our Khmer friends spoil and dote on their children, but it's fair to say that is true in many cases. Some argue that it's a result of societal damage from the genocide, others that it's just cultural difference.
It is no longer politically correct to run orphanages, or call them children's homes.

But when you see what happens in some families, the only way to give the children a decent chance in life, is to get them away from the family.

I believe there will be a need for children's homes for a long time to come. Lets call them boarding schools.

I’m not sure that you know better than best practice internationally.
Education, training and oversight is much, much better than removal.

StroppyChops · Post by **StroppyChops** » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:48 pm

explorer wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:19 pm
StroppyChops wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:43 pm ...Some argue that it's a result of societal damage from the genocide, others that it's just cultural difference.
It is no longer politically correct to run orphanages, or call them children's homes.

But when you see what happens in some families, the only way to give the children a decent chance in life, is to get them away from the family.

I believe there will be a need for children's homes for a long time to come. Lets call them boarding schools.

I have a number of colleagues that work in two different approaches - one is Children in Families, where the foundation is that kids are better off with a blood relative, be it a sibling, one parent, an uncle/aunt or a grandparent, rather than an institution. I strongly agree with this approach. At times the family unit needs support to remain together, and often it needs guidance and even policing to make sure the kids are safe, cared for, and sent to school.

The second approach, which can be complementary, is Alongsiders - an organisation a bit like the buddy system (Big Brother/Sister) used in other countries where a young adult volunteer is assigned to one child to be their safe person, companion, mentor through childhood in a formalised way. It's a little like one-on-one Scouts or Girl Guides, but lower on the Maslow's hierarchy. This volunteer is trained and supported from within the organisation, and knows when to call in the infantry.

I have other colleagues who did actually start orphanages in response to specific needs, in one case a tidal wave off Indonesia that wiped out a whole island save for a small handful of young boys. Standard practice at that time was to start a home, so they did. Understanding and policy has changed, but their kids still need to be housed and cared for, although they are changing their approach moving forward. Other friends in Cambodia run a successful and very well run dormitory for rural kids to come to the city for education and first jobs, and have in the past taken orphans although they no longer do. They have the support of the government, whereas other orphanages are being very closely scrutinised. One Australian institution in particular should, from my first hand observations, be very closely investigated.

Edit: in our situation, we work closely for long periods with young adults so they can be the centre of their family unit where parents are absent or detrimental.

newkidontheblock · Post by **newkidontheblock** » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:51 am

Fascinating discussion into Khmer culture.

Was talking to missus about it, got a blank look.

Ideas on filial piety are reinforced at the temple level. And in schools, and on TV. Since the majority of Khmer routinely go to temple, kids go to school, and watch TV, how does one counteract such ideas?

Mass conversion of the Khmer to Christianity?

khmerhamster · Post by **khmerhamster** » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:11 am

newkidontheblock wrote:Since the majority of Khmer routinely go to temple

Do they? Unless you mean regularly as every Pchum Ben.
I’m not sure the regular Khmer person on the street is particularly religious. I could be wrong.

newkidontheblock · Post by **newkidontheblock** » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:35 am

I’ve never seen a poor Khmer temple. Even in poor communities, the temple is always the nicest thing there. Someone must be visiting and donating. Speakers are always announcing prayers out in the village.

As for Buddhist holy days, there are a lot of them! There is a booming lotus blossom and flower business as well as joss sticks and candles at every market in town.

explorer · Post by **explorer** » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:52 am

khmerhamster wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:11 am
newkidontheblock wrote:Since the majority of Khmer routinely go to temple
Do they? Unless you mean regularly as every Pchum Ben.
I’m not sure the regular Khmer person on the street is particularly religious. I could be wrong.

Christianity is based on beliefs.

Buddhism is based on traditions and customs.

The majority of Buddhists will give food to monks when they come around, and bow down for their blessing. The majority are involved with the various festivals when the time comes.

Millions of people in Cambodia are Muslim. Their religion even more involved than Christians or Buddhists.

Post by **Clutch Cargo** » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:56 am

newkidontheblock wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:51 am Fascinating discussion into Khmer culture.

Was talking to missus about it, got a blank look.

Ideas on filial piety are reinforced at the temple level. And in schools, and on TV. Since the majority of Khmer routinely go to temple, kids go to school, and watch TV, how does one counteract such ideas?

Mass conversion of the Khmer to Christianity?

Why would we want to counteract this? That is how the system works for poorer families in developing countries...short of western ideas where parents are more independent and don't necessarily have to rely on family for support and if not, the nanny state steps in with a pension safety net.

However in situations that Stroppy Chops described earlier in this thread ie irresponsible parents that drink, gamble and sell the family home to support et al yet the kids still support the parents, the system does not work effectively

And how would converting them to Christianity assist in this context when they already have their faith/Buddhism?

The Suk Straggler · Post by **The Suk Straggler** » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:56 am

Duncan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:31 am Just to clear some facts up,,, The mother is not my wife or girlfriend, and the girls [ 4 ] are not my biological children although I treat them as and accept them as my daughters and my best friends.

You are best friends with a nine year old girl . . . and other girls . . . and you go away with them for nights and give them money . . . and you are not related to them . . . and you are not dating their mother . . . and in Cambodia of all places? The NGOs will be watching for sure!

Duncan · Post by **Duncan** » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:16 am

The Suk Straggler wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:56 am
Duncan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:31 am Just to clear some facts up,,, The mother is not my wife or girlfriend, and the girls [ 4 ] are not my biological children although I treat them as and accept them as my daughters and my best friends.
You are best friends with a nine year old girl . . . and other girls . . . and you go away with them for nights and give them money . . . and you are not related to them . . . and you are not dating their mother . . . and in Cambodia of all places? The NGOs will be watching for sure!

You are picking out a few minor facts of a long story, that you dont know or understand, and in believing that any man with kids must have bad intentions

Spoiler:

but any NGO or anyone else is quite welcome to check out the situation and talk to the girls. They all speak, read and understand English very well.

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