Duncan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:31 am

Queef wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:14 am Sir Duncan, make sure to always sleep with one eye open! If your wife really needed money for whatever reason, she could've just asked you instead of stealing from her own daughter, right? Why didn't she ask you though? Did you ask her that? Did you confront her about this or not? Is this even acceptable in the Cambodian culture?
Make sure she understands that you're not trying to make her "lose face". You just want to clear things up and make sure it doesn't happen again.
That's kind of fucked though. You're providing your kid with some serious life skills, and your wife is out there teaching her how to rob people and get away with it. Damn.

Just to clear some facts up,,, The mother is not my wife or girlfriend, and the girls [ 4 ] are not my biological children although I treat them as and accept them as my daughters and my best friends.

As you all know, with some people if you give them money they will dispose of it very quickly and be back for more, which has happened many times so I dont give her any money any more. I just pay for all expenses as she works lots of overtime and brings home about $350 a month plus her oldest daughter works and gives her mother $140 every month. Thats $490 a month.

ooohhh llawwwwwddd... What did you get yourself into? Not your wife or gf? Not your kids? But you support them financially? You guys already had a few arguments related to money and you're still there? How did you get yourself in that situation?
I'm hoping the mom lets you hit it, otherwise your ROIs are close to being negative.

Queef wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:46 am

Duncan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:31 am

Queef wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:14 am Sir Duncan, make sure to always sleep with one eye open! If your wife really needed money for whatever reason, she could've just asked you instead of stealing from her own daughter, right? Why didn't she ask you though? Did you ask her that? Did you confront her about this or not? Is this even acceptable in the Cambodian culture?
Make sure she understands that you're not trying to make her "lose face". You just want to clear things up and make sure it doesn't happen again.
That's kind of fucked though. You're providing your kid with some serious life skills, and your wife is out there teaching her how to rob people and get away with it. Damn.

Just to clear some facts up,,, The mother is not my wife or girlfriend, and the girls [ 4 ] are not my biological children although I treat them as and accept them as my daughters and my best friends.

As you all know, with some people if you give them money they will dispose of it very quickly and be back for more, which has happened many times so I dont give her any money any more. I just pay for all expenses as she works lots of overtime and brings home about $350 a month plus her oldest daughter works and gives her mother $140 every month. Thats $490 a month.

ooohhh llawwwwwddd... What did you get yourself into? Not your wife or gf? Not your kids? But you support them financially? You guys already had a few arguments related to money and you're still there? How did you get yourself in that situation?
I'm hoping the mom lets you hit it, otherwise your ROIs are close to being negative.

The mother is actually my g/f sister and I have supported the kids for their schooling since I first arrived in Cambodia in 2003. I had no choice in how many kids or
whether they were boys or girls , but I had a choice in whether I supported the first one and and not the other younger ones as they born and grew up . The answer was simple. Pay for schooling for them all. With careful budgeting I can do it and its only money that I will not be able to take to the grave with me.

Duncan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:06 pm

Duncan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:31 am As you all know, with some people if you give them money they will dispose of it very quickly and be back for more, which has happened many times so I dont give her any money any more. I just pay for all expenses as she works lots of overtime and brings home about $350 a month plus her oldest daughter works and gives her mother $140 every month. Thats $490 a month.

The mother is actually my g/f sister and I have supported the kids for their schooling since I first arrived in Cambodia in 2003. I had no choice in how many kids or whether they were boys or girls, but I had a choice in whether I supported the first one and and not the other younger ones as they born and grew up. The answer was simple. Pay for schooling for them all. With careful budgeting I can do it and its only money that I will not be able to take to the grave with me.

Good on you for supporting them. I think helping children get a good education is a very worthwhile thing to do. I also assist some students from poor families go to university.

However, if the mother earns so much, I suggest asking her to contribute too.

I have asked the students I am supporting to get part time work, and they are all working part time now. They can earn most of the money they need by working themselves. I only need to assist a little, when they are short occasionally. I will ask any students I assist in the future to also work part time. This approach will enable me to assist many more students, as they dont need much money.

Getting work experience, is also a valuable part of life education. If you give and give and give, they will be lazy.

I also spent a little time on a volunteer basis teaching English to students from poor families sponsored by an NGO to go to university. This NGO also asks students to work part time for the last year and a half while they are at university. Getting work experiences is an important part of education.

Duncan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:06 pm

Queef wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:46 am

Duncan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:31 am

Queef wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:14 am Sir Duncan, make sure to always sleep with one eye open! If your wife really needed money for whatever reason, she could've just asked you instead of stealing from her own daughter, right? Why didn't she ask you though? Did you ask her that? Did you confront her about this or not? Is this even acceptable in the Cambodian culture?
Make sure she understands that you're not trying to make her "lose face". You just want to clear things up and make sure it doesn't happen again.
That's kind of fucked though. You're providing your kid with some serious life skills, and your wife is out there teaching her how to rob people and get away with it. Damn.

Just to clear some facts up,,, The mother is not my wife or girlfriend, and the girls [ 4 ] are not my biological children although I treat them as and accept them as my daughters and my best friends.

As you all know, with some people if you give them money they will dispose of it very quickly and be back for more, which has happened many times so I dont give her any money any more. I just pay for all expenses as she works lots of overtime and brings home about $350 a month plus her oldest daughter works and gives her mother $140 every month. Thats $490 a month.

ooohhh llawwwwwddd... What did you get yourself into? Not your wife or gf? Not your kids? But you support them financially? You guys already had a few arguments related to money and you're still there? How did you get yourself in that situation?
I'm hoping the mom lets you hit it, otherwise your ROIs are close to being negative.

The mother is actually my g/f sister and I have supported the kids for their schooling since I first arrived in Cambodia in 2003. I had no choice in how many kids or
whether they were boys or girls , but I had a choice in whether I supported the first one and and not the other younger ones as they born and grew up . The answer was simple. Pay for schooling for them all. With careful budgeting I can do it and its only money that I will not be able to take to the grave with me.

Kudos to you, Duncan Where is the kids' dad though?
Even if what you're doing is kind and very altruistic, don't you feel like the mother could've stopped reproducing once she realized she couldn't afford to raise one kid? Maybe it's just me, but I feel like they are taking advantage of your kind heart.

Queef wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:33 pm

Duncan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:06 pm

Queef wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:46 am

Duncan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:31 am

Queef wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:14 am Sir Duncan, make sure to always sleep with one eye open! If your wife really needed money for whatever reason, she could've just asked you instead of stealing from her own daughter, right? Why didn't she ask you though? Did you ask her that? Did you confront her about this or not? Is this even acceptable in the Cambodian culture?
Make sure she understands that you're not trying to make her "lose face". You just want to clear things up and make sure it doesn't happen again.
That's kind of fucked though. You're providing your kid with some serious life skills, and your wife is out there teaching her how to rob people and get away with it. Damn.

Just to clear some facts up,,, The mother is not my wife or girlfriend, and the girls [ 4 ] are not my biological children although I treat them as and accept them as my daughters and my best friends.

As you all know, with some people if you give them money they will dispose of it very quickly and be back for more, which has happened many times so I dont give her any money any more. I just pay for all expenses as she works lots of overtime and brings home about $350 a month plus her oldest daughter works and gives her mother $140 every month. Thats $490 a month.

ooohhh llawwwwwddd... What did you get yourself into? Not your wife or gf? Not your kids? But you support them financially? You guys already had a few arguments related to money and you're still there? How did you get yourself in that situation?
I'm hoping the mom lets you hit it, otherwise your ROIs are close to being negative.

The mother is actually my g/f sister and I have supported the kids for their schooling since I first arrived in Cambodia in 2003. I had no choice in how many kids or
whether they were boys or girls , but I had a choice in whether I supported the first one and and not the other younger ones as they born and grew up . The answer was simple. Pay for schooling for them all. With careful budgeting I can do it and its only money that I will not be able to take to the grave with me.

Kudos to you, Duncan Where is the kids' dad though?
Even if what you're doing is kind and very altruistic, don't you feel like the mother could've stopped reproducing once she realized she couldn't afford to raise one kid? Maybe it's just me, but I feel like they are taking advantage of your kind heart.

The father was your typical Honda Deliam motodop,,, drinking, gambling and coming home drunk demanding his matrimony rights , which is why baby number four was conceived and they then split up , with my advice, and he was no longer seen. His loss was my gain.

Just to give a little perspective on local thinking, for those who don't already know...

A young lady very close to me was trafficked as the eldest daughter by her mother, ostensibly to feed the rest of the family (yeah right), and when her obligation was bought by others to secure her release the mother immediately arranged a marriage and started receiving a "stipend" from the groom-to-be's family in anticipation of the event. We guided the young lady through putting an end to that, and she later brought all of her sisters except one to be nearer to us to prevent the mother from selling them. The mother would not release the one that remained in the village, as she is there to do the work and tend the cows - in this case, we can't save them all.

Now that the young lady is responsible for the care of three younger siblings - all of their care - you'd expect mother to leave her alone to do so. But no, she'd still get regular phone calls from mother demanding she Wing all of her money to mother, which she would obediently do, leaving no money for food, housing, schooling, medical etc. until next pay day. We had to step in and put an end to that. The mother has a dozen cows and owns the family land, so isn't as poor as you'd think.

Young lady is now pregnant, and her mother has in all seriousness laid claim to the unborn child once weaned (known to be a boy) to be her servant in later years. The young lady now has sufficient agency to be able to say that won't be happening.

Yes, there's an argument that retirement here is in the form of the children serving the parents, but there's a line between family service and servitude.

When we first arrived, a Khmer lady who works in justice patiently and repeatedly explained to us that Khmer mothers just don't love their children in the way we are familiar with. And then others started telling us the same. We struggled to accept this, until we saw (as previously stated in this thread) that children truly are just commodities in many families. Obviously that's a gross over-generalisation and most of our Khmer friends spoil and dote on their children, but it's fair to say that is true in many cases. Some argue that it's a result of societal damage from the genocide, others that it's just cultural difference.

StroppyChops wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:43 pm Yes, there's an argument that retirement here is in the form of the children serving the parents, but there's a line between family service and servitude.

Some argue that it's a result of societal damage from the genocide, others that it's just cultural difference.

Good post and useful insights. I've come across many similar stories.

Having spent considerable time in Thailand, Philippines and Cambodia, seems to me this is SEA's way of taking care of the old in the absence of a government old age pension safety net as in the west. KOW is no different (albeit as you say perhaps accentuated following the genocide). At least for poorer folk. The more kids you have the more likely you will be taken care of when you are too old or sick to work.

I'm not sure they see the fine line between service and servitude as we do tbh

You use the term 'serve the parents'...I guess that can be interpreted in different ways but I would have used the stronger word 'obligated'. Family and obligation is drummed into these kids from a young age and I've heard many offspring refer to it as their 'duty' given their parents have sacrificed to bring them up.. However, if we put on our western hats, some would say they are indoctrinated/brainwashed.. Nevertheless, seems to me that is the way it is in developing countries until the standard of living improves.

clutchcargo wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:46 pm

StroppyChops wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:43 pm Yes, there's an argument that retirement here is in the form of the children serving the parents, but there's a line between family service and servitude.

Some argue that it's a result of societal damage from the genocide, others that it's just cultural difference.

Good post and useful insights. I've come across many similar stories.

Having spent considerable time in Thailand, Philippines and Cambodia, seems to me this is SEA's way of taking care of the old in the absence of a government old age pension safety net as in the west. KOW is no different (albeit as you say perhaps accentuated following the genocide). At least for poorer folk. The more kids you have the more likely you will be taken care of when you are too old or sick to work.

I'm not sure they see the fine line between service and servitude as we do tbh

You use the term 'serve the parents'...I guess that can be interpreted in different ways but I would have used the stronger word 'obligated'. Family and obligation is drummed into these kids from a young age and I've heard many offspring refer to it as their 'duty' given their parents have sacrificed to bring them up.. However, if we put on our western hats, some would say they are indoctrinated/brainwashed.. Nevertheless, seems to me that is the way it is in developing countries until the standard of living improves.

All good thoughts.

However, when "obligation" means send me all your money as I've gambled/drunk mine away, and I'm going to do the same tomorrow, something needs to change. Especially when the parent generation is prepared to lose the family land to their vices, thus leaving the child generation with nothing in return for their years of servitude except debt, which is transferred to children when parents die.

I understand there's a very basic pension here, although I don't know that with confidence.

StroppyChops wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:56 pm

clutchcargo wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:46 pm

StroppyChops wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:43 pm Yes, there's an argument that retirement here is in the form of the children serving the parents, but there's a line between family service and servitude.

Some argue that it's a result of societal damage from the genocide, others that it's just cultural difference.

Good post and useful insights. I've come across many similar stories.

Having spent considerable time in Thailand, Philippines and Cambodia, seems to me this is SEA's way of taking care of the old in the absence of a government old age pension safety net as in the west. KOW is no different (albeit as you say perhaps accentuated following the genocide). At least for poorer folk. The more kids you have the more likely you will be taken care of when you are too old or sick to work.

I'm not sure they see the fine line between service and servitude as we do tbh

You use the term 'serve the parents'...I guess that can be interpreted in different ways but I would have used the stronger word 'obligated'. Family and obligation is drummed into these kids from a young age and I've heard many offspring refer to it as their 'duty' given their parents have sacrificed to bring them up.. However, if we put on our western hats, some would say they are indoctrinated/brainwashed.. Nevertheless, seems to me that is the way it is in developing countries until the standard of living improves.

All good thoughts.

However, when "obligation" means send me all your money as I've gambled/drunk mine away, and I'm going to do the same tomorrow, something needs to change. Especially when the parent generation is prepared to lose the family land to their vices, thus leaving the child generation with nothing in return for their years of servitude except debt, which is transferred to children when parents die.

I understand there's a very basic pension here, although I don't know that with confidence.

Oh yeah definitely, totally agree there. A case in point is the family the famous 'attractive and stylish' girl is helping..hubby is a junkie and the kids are just pawns.. Also Brody referred to the riverside child trinket peddlers where the parents don't want to work, drink, gamble and have more kids.

Edit: I might add too that even if the parents are irresponsible...the family bonds are still very strong..