Tim Linkinwater wrote:There wouldn't be much written history at all, and none on Cambodia, if only nationals of a country were allowed to write it.

Indeed there is in fact no Cambodia history written by Khmers for hundreds of years. The so called annals written in the 19th century may or may not be as accurate as the Gospel of John. They serve a similar purpose.

Tim Linkinwater wrote:There wouldn't be much written history at all, and none on Cambodia, if only nationals of a country were allowed to write it.

China has written plenty of its own history. Though I get your point; 70% of it is rubbish.

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Maybe it is more a case of how you write something, than just the mere words you write?

If a non British national wrote repeatedly anti -British things, then I am sure the Brits would take um-bridge with it also.

I do not, for one minute agree with taking forum activity in to the real world, in a potentially violent way but we must remember, if you post it on a forum, it is the same as writing it in a newspaper, the same as standing on a 'Soap-Box' on Speakers Corner (London)

If you write things that are disrespectful to people, in their own country then they are likely to cause a reaction. There are many recent cases in the UK, where individuals have legally been held to book for things posted on social media. One that springs to mind was a man who posted disrespectful comments about someone who had been killed in an accident. He was convicted and jailed. I totally agree with that decision and I would think it should form food for thought here.

Members of both forums do not have anonymity and no sooner have they joined than they are meeting up for a coffee or a beer and so their real identity is known. Alternatively, their identity will be disclosed by the main admin in a forum, under some tenuous interpretation of an unwritten forum policy or rule (this is normally referred to as the KiR-effect) and is routinely done to demonstrate some egotistical power trip.

This is an unfortunate situation but we would all do well to reflect on a few things we could learn from it.

We are not unknown in the real world. If we have a business we are more high profile than most.
We should remember we are guests in someone's country.
Disrespect is a very bitter pill in most Asian countries and a taste that lingers a long time.
Are our own countries perfect social models?

I do not for a moment wish to seem morally high and mighty but we do well to remember that offence is something found in the ear and not in the mouth or in forum terms it is not what we write but what someone reads that causes that offence. It is very easy for something written on a forum to be read and radicalised, resulting in a real world negative action.

I have read, over the last week or so a great deal of forum traffic between the Christians and the Atheists and some interesting reading but who else has read this and might well be taking a different interpretation?

I am not for a moment saying we need to never write a challenging word but we do need to understand what we choose to write, will be read by more people that we might think.

If you feel you need to repent for previous forum sins, you can donate Karma to help the wet peasant kids of Wigan and in so doing buy your stairway....

40 + views and not a single reply. I am beginning to think I am a forum curse

I would prefer to see the thread go away, an unfortunate state of affairs. About 200 comments on the two idiot sites, of those not more than two or three from people who read the article and made substantive criticism.

JBTrain wrote:I would prefer to see the thread go away, an unfortunate state of affairs. About 200 comments on the two idiot sites, of those not more than two or three from people who read the article and made substantive criticism.

I was commenting more generally than the specific article. I think the debate to be had is a more general one but maybe, after reading you're succinct reply, it would be better had on another thread altogether.

In Jakarta 1978 a rather forthright Texan offered an unrestrained opinion on the local elite.
Two hours later, he was escorted home to pack for a dawn flight by security officers.

JM wrote an intellectual piece and caught all kinds of heat by uninformed critics who did not read the piece.

There is no fairness when you live in a society that does not even pretend to operate within the rule of law.

The owners of 440 assumed that they were operating in a language vacuum for many years, in fact, security officers keep an eye on all these fora.

It seems to be a common belief that the Khmers are somehow inept or incapable in their dealings with barang on an administrative level.

People forget- they have your fingerprints.

I think in large part the host nation operates on the principle "give them enough rope"

I think KIR has reached the end of his- and unfortunate JM seems to get pulled into the 440 orbit.

Good that there is another forum that gives cambodia a better face now.

The idea that someone should not be able to do historical research and then publish that research because they are a "guest" in the country is preposterous.

I also snicker at the suggestion of some of the commenters on those sites who seem to feel that they, who have never lived in Cambodia or visited Phu Quoc/Koh Tral, have some sort of moral edge in discussing the topic. They certainly have a point in saying that they may be more emotionally invested than an expat, but to extrapolate that to mean that their historical research is somehow more accurate is not correct.

giblet wrote:The idea that someone should not be able to do historical research and then publish that research because they are a "guest" in the country is preposterous.

I also snicker at the suggestion of some of the commenters on those sites who seem to feel that they, who have never lived in Cambodia or visited Phu Quoc/Koh Tral, have some sort of moral edge in discussing the topic. They certainly have a point in saying that they may be more emotionally invested than an expat, but to extrapolate that to mean that their historical research is somehow more accurate is not correct.

Same people, different day.

"Trudy Jacobsen's willingness to challenge received history means she is no stranger to controversy.

In 2006, she wrote an article "Kampuchea Krom: The facts behind the friction" published in The Phnom Penh Post, in which she argued that the usual reasons Cambodians give for hating the Vietnamese were invalid according to 18th-century Cambodian chronicles.

Her assertions prompted hate mail and death threats from Cambodians in Australia and the USA.

"I received emails saying things like *we may live in Long Beach but we know that your house is the one with the two red pots outside'. which was true!" she says."

http://mbox.thejakartapost.com/news/200 ... esses.html

Satiated Parrot wrote:

Tim Linkinwater wrote:There wouldn't be much written history at all, and none on Cambodia, if only nationals of a country were allowed to write it.

China has written plenty of its own history. Though I get your point; 70% of it is rubbish.

China also omits much of it's own history including it's current constitution and all references to the Tienanmen Square protests.

EdinWigan wrote:There are many recent cases in the UK, where individuals have legally been held to book for things posted on social media. One that springs to mind was a man who posted disrespectful comments about someone who had been killed in an accident. He was convicted and jailed. I totally agree with that decision and I would think it should form food for thought here.

You remind me of people who quote 1984 as an argument in favour of totalitarianism. The UK is derided internationally for it's prosecution of speech.

40 + views and not a single reply. I am beginning to think I am a forum curse

Sorry it took me so long to reply. I don't spend every minute of every day on CEO.

Also I disagree with everything that Hotdigr said.