Hunting for Rubies.

Kung-fu Hillbilly · Post by **Kung-fu Hillbilly** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:25 am

.
I thought the article contained some interesting photos of Cambodian river miners.

Group shot of our team with a few Cambodian Soldiers Photo by a Cambodian Boy. Image: Justin Prim

By Justin K Prim

I was part of a gemology expedition searching for gemstones that originate from mines in the Pailin/Chanthaburi area. Though in two different countries, the region around Pailin, Cambodia and Chanthaburi, Thailand have a very interrelated history when it comes to politics, mining, and geology.

"After breakfast on our first morning, we wanted to see some mines. Our mission was to collect stones from as many of the local mines as possible. We needed to get them directly from the source so they could be part of a research collection used for doing Origin Determination at a gemstone laboratory. We had our guide Sovanny with us who is from Pailin and knows many of the merchants and miner"

"Many of the mountainous jungle mining sites we visited were quite dangerous because they are littered with undetonated landmines, remnants of the war-torn era of the Khmer Rouge.

"Loaded in our van, we ventured into the protected MJP jungles inside the Samlot district to see what we could find. En route, we saw a truck from the Halo Trust, a group that is working to find and remove these landmines that injure and kill hundreds of people each year.... While there, we saw a ring of sandbags containing the undetonated mines that they had recovered."

"When the van arrived at its first destination, we were greeted by a Cambodian military officer in uniform. He lead us through a jungle path to a river which we had to cross via a small canoe, five people at a time. Once across, we continued along the small path until we reached another river where we discovered two miners. One of the miners was 72 years old and he told us that he was the oldest miner in the area."

"The scale of Bon Ka Cha was huge compared to the little family mine we had just seen. This one was using several excavators to move soil and expand the giant hole they were working in"

Full

phuketrichard · Post by **phuketrichard** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:21 am

LOL:
when was this written?

I was mining Rubes in Bo Rai on the Cambodian border above Chantaburi back in 87-89. we had our own mine an also i broght from other local miners to make the daily trip down to Chan to sell to the dealers there.

Made a few trips into Cambodia with KR as minders/guides to do some mining, mostly small stones, usually a trip was day and a half of walking to the mines, work for 3-4 days and back out.

There is very little in the way of gem stones left in that area and in the early 90's most of the miners/dealers i knew moved up to Mae sot.

Few stories;
Used to send my mom Photos of the KR driving past my house (it was 1 kms from the border) while she would send me newspaper clippings from the Washington Post stating that there were NO KR in Thailand

We had one time some KR came into town on Saturday night and got drunk an shot up a local karaoke and killed one girl, next day my partner an some of his friends ( he was ex border patrol) went into their camp, shot the murderer an shot up their camp.

I always carried a small 32 when i was out an often would be stopped by the local military an asked if i had my gun, (I was the only farang up there and everyone knew my partner), If i didn't, they made me go back home to get it. They were worried i would be kidnapped.

Never a dull moment

DaveG · Post by **DaveG** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:58 am

Found one !!!!,

davegorman · Post by **davegorman** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:59 am

Look we posted within two minutes. Therefore we can’t be the same person.

Isn’t FLB a gem “expert”?

AndyKK · Post by **AndyKK** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:35 pm

phuketrichard wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:21 am LOL:
when was this written?

I was mining Rubes in Bo Rai on the Cambodian border above Chantaburi back in 87-89. we had our own mine an also i broght from other local miners to make the daily trip down to Chan to sell to the dealers there.

Made a few trips into Cambodia with KR as minders/guides to do some mining, mostly small stones, usually a trip was day and a half of walking to the mines, work for 3-4 days and back out.

There is very little in the way of gem stones left in that area and in the early 90's most of the miners/dealers i knew moved up to Mae sot.

Few stories;
Used to send my mom Photos of the KR driving past my house (it was 1 kms from the border) while she would send me newspaper clippings from the Washington Post stating that there were NO KR in Thailand

We had one time some KR came into town on Saturday night and got drunk an shot up a local karaoke and killed one girl, next day my partner an some of his friends ( he was ex border patrol) went into their camp, shot the murderer an shot up their camp.

I always carried a small 32 when i was out an often would be stopped by the local military an asked if i had my gun, (I was the only farang up there and everyone knew my partner), If i didn't, they made me go back home to get it. They were worried i would be kidnapped.

Never a dull moment

I remember articles like these over the years (interesting). I must confess also Mr phuketrichard you are a dark horse.

The area is well noted for the outstanding qualities of the gemstones (once upon a time). I hear not much nowadays to be found.
But the Rubies are well regarded, but more so the exquisite Pailin Sapphire. I also have been to Chanthaburi gem market on a few occasions, but personally had never any luck, seen many Sapphire small stones, also a little "rough" gemstone too. But the cutting is expensive in the area compared to Cambodia, but even so my knowledge of buying a good stone from the dealers on a very busy hot, sticky Friday afternoon is limited. I knew someone who did well there on a regular basis, but he employed a knowledgeable Thai gemstone buyer, then he sold on the stones in Singapore.
I was there due more to hobby then anything, and that started in India "93". I found safe, better for me was to buy from the dealers of some of the establishments of Chanthaburi, via the internet, also giving a guarantee of the gemstone’s genuineness, or your money back.
Bangkok, I had better luck, but their learned to keep a wide berth of overpriced Indian sellers. I had even ventured over to Phnom Penh and Seim Reap to look and buy many years ago.
One of my very best ever pieces of gemstone jewellery, actually necklace and ear-rings are of fine Cambodian origin, Zircon that were mined in Ratanakiri.

phuketrichard · Post by **phuketrichard** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:12 pm

History ;
Used to be Thai buyers would travel to Ratnapura in Sri lanka in feb each year to buy sapphires and rubies and than take them to chantaburi to be treated, cut and polished, The thai cutters would NOT teach the sri lankas how to cut, this changed in the early 90's

Heat Treatment
Interesting about heat treatment
Note; heat treating is NOT bad for a gem stone if done correctly, it merely finishes what nature started.

According to this source, modern heat treatment was developed by Professor and Madame Bron of Company Grasset and Bron. The first stones heated allegedly originated from the Pailin mines in Cambodia. Treated sapphire rough was given for cutting to lapidaries in the Jura Mountains of Europe at least by 1920 (and possibly as early as 1915). At one point, a Thai was hired to help with the work and the secret then spread. In the 1970s, someone in Thailand began applying the heat process to low-grade Sri Lankan material on a large scale. By the latter part of that decade, large numbers of heat-treated Sri Lankan sapphires were streaming out of Thai ovens. In the early days of what amounted to the Great Geuda Rush, rough could be had for a song and fortunes were amassed overnight. The rest, as they say, is history…

Coldham (1992) gives a slightly different version of the tale. According to him, two Cambodian students came to stay at the Swiss gentleman's house, a then-common practice among wealthy French-speaking Cambodians. During their stay, they learned of the process and upon their return to Cambodia, passed the secret on to dealers in the sapphire fields.

Much of the rough in Bo Rai was small stones of less than 2 ct, in the whole time I was there I came across maybe a couple dozen stones of more than 15 ct, out of Pailin we were digging mines, not stream mining as you get hardly anything that way. Maybe 1/2 kilo of .25-2ct stones for the time there, half of which went to the KR
5ct = 1 gram
Figure a 1 ct stone rough = maybe .25-.35 after cut
Because we couldn't get our big equipment in, the thai's would just dig down 4-5 meters an haul out the rock, dirt an we would sift and sort

I took 1 10 ct rough from our mine, had it treated an cut in Chan, ended up with a beautiful 3 ct ruby, took it back to my cousin in the states who owned a jewelry store, (still did business under my grandfathers name) an sold it for $5,000 not bad as treating an cutting only cost me $300
He told me he later sold it for $15,000 in a gold ring

As to buying gems, you got to know what your doing or at the very least know ur Jeweler, (my grandfather's moto in his diamond store in dc back in the 40-70's was, "if you dont know your diamonds, know your jeweler"

IN Chantaburi for about 2 months I would spend 3-4 hours sorting, resorting an resorting piles of rough an even after all that the buyers would point out what i missed
It was tough to make money, some days i'd make 2-300,000 baht, others i'd lose hundreds as i had to sell my rough each day in Chan so i could buy the next day in Bo Rai

Even now its a very tough business, even my ex partners shop in Bangkok some days goes 1 week with no sales

I love gems

frank lee bent · Post by **frank lee bent** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:58 pm

i was an opal cutter at Lightning Ridge for decades, and made a living from stones for 37 years.
there is still a lot of unworked ground higher up the mountains from those rivers controlled by the military.

AndyKK · Post by **AndyKK** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:31 pm

frank lee bent wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:58 pm i was an opal cutter at Lightning Ridge for decades, and made a living from stones for 37 years.
there is still a lot of unworked ground higher up the mountains from those rivers controlled by the military.

I remember some years ago asking you Frank if you knew cutters here. I did find one, but the daughter told me that her father, the cutter had only just passed away. I have possibly five stones (Rough Tanzanite) that still could do with cutting.

Yes, Chantaburi is good if you know what is what, and like you Richard speak Thai. That is why I believe to hire a Thai who knows what he is doing will not lose you money (hopefully). There were some beautiful Sapphire's in a hotel I would stay at the market area, also they were premium prices.
I had also visited Sri Lanka, and visited a mine, also watched how they cut and heat treated Sapphire's. Agra was another place too, I recall a uncomfortable moment sitting around the gem sellers table in a building with no windows, with some friends and also other buyers! The lights went out, the table was full of gems, my hand's went on top of my head. the doors were opened to let in light. Everyone was looking at each other. We were asked to empty our pockets. while Indians were counting their stones. It was a little uncomfortable, I left and went back to the hotel. Friends arrived at times later on with Ganja and beers, that lightened the evening.
Until one said "I got a pretty red one" holding a ruby up to the ceiling light. Then the guy taking the joint from his lips "it's not as big has the blue one I have."

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