How much anonymity..?

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Bitte_Kein_Lexus
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Re: How much anonymity..?

Post by Bitte_Kein_Lexus »

General Mackevili wrote:
Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote:For some reason, you guys opted to let it slide for months.
Glad you brought that up.

I would NOT say we "let it slide" at all.

It was simply over looked. We obviously had a lot going on when we started CEO (and still do, no doubt), and while it was changed a few times, it only took him a few seconds to change it back.

I now know that it's easy to lock someone's avatar or take that feature away from a member all together if abused.

My bad.
Fair enough. It's just that I kept seeing different "white power" avatars. I found it strange that you guys were so hellbent on the whole "freedom of speech" thing, since leniency to avatars like that surely pushed away several new/potential members. Playboy was obviously having a field day with the "principles" under which you founded CEO.


OrangeDragon wrote:
Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote:
OrangeDragon wrote:But on the other hand it makes enforcement of punishing anyone doing anything severely illegal with our site nearly impossible, at the very least implausible. If someone were to sign up in such a way and make real and severe threats to one of our members, for instance, we'd have no way to report them to authorities for the sake of that member's protection.
That's a pretty stupid statement and I think you answer your own question. If someone breaks the law on the site, then I think it's within your rights to report their IP and help the relevant authorities.
I think you missed an aspect. By allowing people to sign up and post using VPNs (like HideMyAss for instance) and throw away email address systems (like GurelliaMail) they are able to hide their actual information.

So the question is, should be allow that sort of signing up?
Yep, definitely didn't catch that. I'd say you can give people the benefit of the doubt at first. If they post anything "off", then a temporary or permanent ban is in order. Or make it so that the first few posts need to be moderated.
Ex Bitteeinbit/LexusSchmexus
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Re: How much anonymity..?

Post by Bomber »

OrangeDragon wrote:I think you missed an aspect. By allowing people to sign up and post using VPNs (like HideMyAss for instance) and throw away email address systems (like GurelliaMail) they are able to hide their actual information.

So the question is, should be allow that sort of signing up?
Yes, that is the question. I guess you have answered that question yourself already. Most proxies and tunnels do not work on this site because you need to enter a CAPTCHA for every single page you click on which makes it actually impossible to surf the site. So at least you are using some kind of force to push users to use their own IP.
Anchor Moy
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Re: How much anonymity..?

Post by Anchor Moy »

Possibly put the first couple of posts under supervision ? For 5 posts ? Or 5 reports ?
Just an idea.

It may not stop trolls from coming back as socks, but if you keep getting removed after 2 or 3 posts, you might go trolling elsewhere ? 8)
randompeeps
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Re: How much anonymity..?

Post by randompeeps »

OrangeDragon wrote:
randompeeps wrote: I just wrote out long winded answers to your responses, but I'm not even going to bother. Do what you like, you can require that all posters provide a copy of their passport and visa for all I care, it's your website. Just consider whether the majority of posts describing illegal activities here are from people making serious threats against each other, or just people using the site to talk about their own semi-legal escapades. Then think about whether you actually want to be able to help authorities identify these people or not. People make threats against each other all the time, it's not your job to police them.
I doubt you did, but it's always a clever statement to make it appear so I suppose.
I didn't end up feeling the need to post it because I sent it as a PM to Mack.....
Spoiler:
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As for if it is/isn't our job to police them... then giving them a platform for a voice includes with it no responsibility on how they use it?
There's a world of difference between responsibility for moderating content and verifying IP's and email addys. When I talked before about this whole thing being bizarre, that's what I was referring to. You have enough experience of using the internet that people don't need to be telling you this stuff. I've been on countless forums and never even heard anyone suggesting what you are, let alone claiming that they have a responsibility to implement it.
Or are you suggesting that there is an implied responsibility (at least in the eyes of law enforcement) and that we should be willing martyrs in the crusade against is as your newsworthy associate was? Because if we were to not act on it, especially when given a complaint about it, and it manifests into actual violence or death you can be sure that at the very least we would be out significant amounts of time and money in our legal defense over the situation.
See my comment above, it applies to this statement too.
You seem focused on the "describing illegal activities here" aspect... can you give a case when such an act has led to arrests?
No, because no forums do what you're suggesting..... If they did then things would probably be different, hence the objection.
OrangeDragon
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Re: How much anonymity..?

Post by OrangeDragon »

Bomber wrote:
OrangeDragon wrote:I think you missed an aspect. By allowing people to sign up and post using VPNs (like HideMyAss for instance) and throw away email address systems (like GurelliaMail) they are able to hide their actual information.

So the question is, should be allow that sort of signing up?
Yes, that is the question. I guess you have answered that question yourself already. Most proxies and tunnels do not work on this site because you need to enter a CAPTCHA for every single page you click on which makes it actually impossible to surf the site. So at least you are using some kind of force to push users to use their own IP.
Most of that is because those same proxies are being used by SPAM bots and so their IP addresses are being turned to garbage. Even with all of that protection in place, we're still having to deal with ones slipping through the cracks. Before we implemented it we were getting inundated with them.

Random:
There are forums doing what I'm suggesting. Loads of them won't allow the use of known VPN IP addresses, nor throw away email addresses. Some won't even allow gmail/yahoo addresses. And there are certainly people posting under their own information on bluelight, describing all sorts of illegal activities, and not being busted for it. Meanwhile there are people being held responsible via this information, on forums as I've posted links to support, for harassment/stalking/libel.

I'm not really for or against such an implementation, as we've covered... but I am against these false ideas about what is/isn't done/etc. Not every incident makes headlines, in fact I imagine most don't... but this stuff is happening.

As for responsibility... to be clear, I'm referring to a moral responsibility, not a legal one... many people get very caught up thinking about the legal aspects as the end of the line of responsibility, it's not. To go back to the bar analogy, what bar owner would let a guy in a mask walk in and start insulting all of his customers unchallenged? Even though just seeing his face would be little information to help with any followup/reconciliation and there's no law against drinking in a bar in a mask. Doing so would be irresponsibly to his other patrons, mostly do to the psychology behind how people tend to feel they can act when disguised.
randompeeps
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Re: How much anonymity..?

Post by randompeeps »

Sorry but this is just fucking stupid. We've gone from ". If someone were to sign up in such a way and make real and severe threats to one of our members, for instance, we'd have no way to report them to authorities for the sake of that member's protection......... do we have a responsibility to make sure our users CAN be held accountable for their actions here? Sites get subpoenaed for their users' information in the case of crimes rather regularly.........I never suggested us handing over personal information/etc,that IS an ISPs job. It was always just about IP and email information, which is what sites get subpoenaed for......"

to "to be clear, I'm referring to a moral responsibility, not a legal one..."

You spent most of the thread talking about laws, jurisdictions and subpoenas, and now all of a sudden this has nothing to do with legal responsibility?

This is what they call playing tennis without a net. If you want to talk about moral responsibility, then stfu about subpoenas and stuff that isn't relevant:

You are operating a website for people who live in a country ruled by an authoritarian government that regularly arrests people for criticizing it and protesting against it. Put that in your "moral responsibility to curtail online anonymity" pipe and smoke it.
OrangeDragon
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Re: How much anonymity..?

Post by OrangeDragon »

Yeah, we're talking about 2 different things... because this has drifted a lot.

One, there are people saying "no, websites never get asked for that information" when in fact, they do. legally.
Two, we're talking about if a site owner should be responsible and try to provide that information and take steps to make sure it's available. Morally.

Perhaps if you could reply without your dismissiveness and hostility it would make your posts on the subject more readable.
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Re: How much anonymity..?

Post by Username Taken »

OrangeDragon wrote:. . . . . this has drifted a lot.
Here's the OP.
OrangeDragon wrote:Should we allow for users?

With the free speech conversation in the other thread and just having to activate an account flagged by our anti-spam system because it was using a throw away email and a VPN, it got me thinking... and I thought I'd like the feedback of our esteemed member base (including those who conceal themselves in such ways) on those thoughts.

On the one hand, I can fully understand the desire to be anon for various reasons. Avoiding spam emails from us (which we don't actually send), speaking more openly knowing that no one knows who you are, preventing violation of personal details by us (which we don't do) or by an outside breach of our security (vlad forbid).

But on the other hand it makes enforcement of punishing anyone doing anything severely illegal with our site nearly impossible, at the very least implausible. If someone were to sign up in such a way and make real and severe threats to one of our members, for instance, we'd have no way to report them to authorities for the sake of that member's protection.

It also makes really banning anyone impossible, as all they have to do is use one of the same methods to make a new account... again and again and again. Which is also why many forums don't allow such throw away emails to register.

Anyway... your guys' thoughts on this subject?
I, for one, would love to here randompeep's opinions on the OP, which the thread seems to have detracted from.
Playboy
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Re: How much anonymity..?

Post by Playboy »

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote: ... For example, you guys let Playboy fly his Nazi avatars (which were an obvious jab at your guys)
Actually, it was self-deprecating humour based on how many people refer to me/440 as Nazis/Fascists/et cetera (remember the Hitler in the bunker rant YouTube clip about 440 and its members?)
Image

Or at least it was until the fuhrer's minions resorted to censorship, deleted it, gave me the fugly bint in my current avatar and locked me out of the option to change my avatar here on RedHeadedStepChild.com
Spoiler:
Image
Actively seeking Thai Ladyboys to sexually dominate me. Please inquire within.
Milord
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Re: How much anonymity..?

Post by Milord »

Playboy, If it's true that, "the fuhrer's minions resorted to censorship, deleted it, gave me the fugly bint in my current avatar and locked me out of the option to change my avatar here", I find it funny (and unfair, hehe) but wtf, "they can and did" just to mess with you.

Made me laugh you were "powerless". :stir:
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