How to be a greener consumer in Cambodia

armchairlawyer · Post by **armchairlawyer** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:06 pm

Full disclosure, I am not a big believer in man-made climate change nor in CO2 being such a terrible thing, nor in EVs and renewable energy being great solutions to anything - but certain things are no-brainers.
For example, I have been reliably informed of several things:
Cambodia has no facility to recycle glass bottles
Cambodia does not produce glass bottles, they are all imported
Cambodia does produce aluminium cans
Cambodia does recycle aluminium cans
Single-use plastic kills fish by filling up their stomachs.

If anyone has solid information to correct any of this, please go ahead.

If it is true, then (starting with drinking) I'd like to stick to draught beer and canned beer and not use plastic straws. Imported whisky is not so bad because one bottle contains 20 or more drinks instead of one - and there is a good chance the bottle will be recycled for something or other.

I prefer premium beers and most bars only sell the cheap stuff in draught and in cans. Kudos to Marine bar and 69 bar for having Tiger in cans.
Please add any others. Non-hostess bars often have a better selection of beers, eg good quality craft draughts, canned Heineken etc but I rarely drink in those places.

Spigzy · Post by **Spigzy** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:41 pm

Draught beer is only as good as the person maintaining the pipe cleanliness - I refer the honorable lawyer to Khmer familiarity with pipes as witnessed on the guttering on buildings; distastefully blue, non-existent or blocked.

Canned beer is massively inferior to bottled as per the Ministry of Spigzy inspectorate and confirmed in the epic tale of Beerwulf:

Beerwulf wrote:Usually the main cause of deterioration of small packaged beer is dissolved oxygen. It causes oxidation of hop compounds in particular leading to dusty or cardboard type off flavours.

It is fundamentally easier to get beer into a glass bottle with low dissolved oxygen than into a can.

Processes such as purging of the bottle or can prior to filling, & under lid gassing in the case of canning all help to reduce oxygen pickup during packaging, but there is still likely to be more pickup during canning.

Once in the package cans must be pasteurised to prevent fermentation in can. Most bottled beers are also pasteurised in bottle, for the same reason, but a few bottled beers are sold as bottle conditioned where fermentation is encouraged in the bottle to improve flavour & increase carbonation.

In both cases pasteurisation effectively “cooks in” the oxygen starting the process of deterioration of flavour by oxidation.

The combination of dissolved oxygen pickup during packaging & the pasteurisation are the main reasons why small packaged beer usually has inferior taste to draft, & the usually higher oxygen pickup during canning explains the fact that canned beer is usually inferior to bottled.

Note that most beers in clear or green glass undergo light mediated deterioration of hop compounds leading to a characteristic off flavour known as sunstruck. This doesnt happen in canned beer, so if your beer is in clear glass or can you can chose between sunstruck & oxidised.

Sunstrike does not occur normally in brown glass bottled beers, so I almost always chose them over other options.

Glass bottles are collected by "et-jai", thus must have some value for recycle somewhere.

I fully support your move to avoid plastic straws - as a grown up lawyer I suspect you don't drink beer with one anyway. That said, certain establishments may not clean glasses well, resulting in a 'wet dog' scent around ther rim; I suggest either a straw, or just discard that stuff & find another bar!

Hurrumph. Beer.

Captain Bonez · Post by **Captain Bonez** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:46 pm

armchairlawyer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:06 pmCambodia has no facility to recycle glass bottles

There's a glass recycling group on Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/groups/glassrecyclecambodia

They ship crates of glass to GAEA Waste Management company at Prek Pnov it says on their page, i think they pulverize it into sand to use in concrete possibly.

Also

Only One Planet Cambodia

And the Pay It Forward Project is LIVE and ready to accept your glass! Attached is a picture of the Kinin location. Remember to clean all your items and come with some small Riels as it's 500R per kilo. We're talking with a 4th location, details to follow!

We have 3 venues ready to go, as follows:

Amanjaya Pancam Suites Hotel (Riverside)
Tues - Sunday 8am - 5pm

Kinin (Toul Tom Pong)
Tues - Sunday 11am - 11pm

Bong Bonlai - Vegan Cuisine / YK Art House
Weekends - 9am - 9pm / Weekdays - 12pm - 9pm

***Please note that whilst Farm to Table is not part of this initiative, they also provide this service in BKK1, currently free of charge. Check their Facebook page for hours and details!

armchairlawyer · Post by **armchairlawyer** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:06 pm

Spigzy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:41 pm Draught beer is only as good as the person maintaining the pipe cleanliness - I refer the honorable lawyer to Khmer familiarity with pipes as witnessed on the guttering on buildings; distastefully blue, non-existent or blocked.

Canned beer is massively inferior to bottled as per the Ministry of Spigzy inspectorate and confirmed in the epic tale of Beerwulf:
Beerwulf wrote:Usually the main cause of deterioration of small packaged beer is dissolved oxygen. It causes oxidation of hop compounds in particular leading to dusty or cardboard type off flavours.

It is fundamentally easier to get beer into a glass bottle with low dissolved oxygen than into a can.

Processes such as purging of the bottle or can prior to filling, & under lid gassing in the case of canning all help to reduce oxygen pickup during packaging, but there is still likely to be more pickup during canning.

Once in the package cans must be pasteurised to prevent fermentation in can. Most bottled beers are also pasteurised in bottle, for the same reason, but a few bottled beers are sold as bottle conditioned where fermentation is encouraged in the bottle to improve flavour & increase carbonation.

In both cases pasteurisation effectively “cooks in” the oxygen starting the process of deterioration of flavour by oxidation.

The combination of dissolved oxygen pickup during packaging & the pasteurisation are the main reasons why small packaged beer usually has inferior taste to draft, & the usually higher oxygen pickup during canning explains the fact that canned beer is usually inferior to bottled.

Note that most beers in clear or green glass undergo light mediated deterioration of hop compounds leading to a characteristic off flavour known as sunstruck. This doesnt happen in canned beer, so if your beer is in clear glass or can you can chose between sunstruck & oxidised.

Sunstrike does not occur normally in brown glass bottled beers, so I almost always chose them over other options.
Glass bottles are collected by "et-jai", thus must have some value for recycle somewhere.

I fully support your move to avoid plastic straws - as a grown up lawyer I suspect you don't drink beer with one anyway. That said, certain establishments may not clean glasses well, resulting in a 'wet dog' scent around ther rim; I suggest either a straw, or just discard that stuff & find another bar!

Hurrumph. Beer.

Well, I probably don't have many taste buds left but I find canned beer very good. But it must be decanted into a glass. It tastes horrible drunk directly from the can.
I come across the obnoxious plastic straws every time I order a soda or even a glass of plain water.

armchairlawyer · Post by **armchairlawyer** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:07 pm

Captain Bonez wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:46 pm
armchairlawyer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:06 pmCambodia has no facility to recycle glass bottles
There's a glass recycling group on Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/groups/glassrecyclecambodia

They ship crates of glass to GAEA Waste Management company at Prek Pnov it says on their page, i think they pulverize it into sand to use in concrete possibly.

Also

Only One Planet Cambodia

And the Pay It Forward Project is LIVE and ready to accept your glass! Attached is a picture of the Kinin location. Remember to clean all your items and come with some small Riels as it's 500R per kilo. We're talking with a 4th location, details to follow!

We have 3 venues ready to go, as follows:

Amanjaya Pancam Suites Hotel (Riverside)
Tues - Sunday 8am - 5pm

Kinin (Toul Tom Pong)
Tues - Sunday 11am - 11pm

Bong Bonlai - Vegan Cuisine / YK Art House
Weekends - 9am - 9pm / Weekdays - 12pm - 9pm

***Please note that whilst Farm to Table is not part of this initiative, they also provide this service in BKK1, currently free of charge. Check their Facebook page for hours and details!

This is great. But I have no control over how the bar disposes of its bottles.

nemo · Post by **nemo** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:17 pm

A rather considerable industry exists in Indonesia making large crude glass beads using scrap glass.
They are attractive and sell to tourists readily.

phuketrichard · Post by **phuketrichard** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:27 pm

when i do find myself ( rarely) desiring a beer here,
this is my choice

prefer drinking from the bottle rather than a glass
always refuse/return the straws,

I think the last straws i used were when i was a kid and they had chocolate or vanilla flavor

Post by **Freightdog** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:42 pm

I’m with Spigzy. (Well, not with, as such…)

Beer in bottles is much preferred to its variant in cans.
Tasting the aluminium as you drink from a can detracts somewhat, even with Ganzberg. In the provinces, one makes do.
I find I savour the beer more from a bottle, if it’s a beer that can be savoured. I much prefer Peroni by the bottle, rather than by the pint.

Draught, however, is a much better delivery system for such delights as Guinness. The widget in a can is fine in the absence of civilisation, but draught for me, first.

Given the number of paper recycling efforts, or rather, packaged paper scrap stored en-masse at various locations around the country, I am surprised at the absence of glass recycling. The inconsistency is not unknown, though. In sleepy deepest dreariest darsit, I recall glass recycling was everything glass into this hopper, if at this council car park, but clearly segregated by clear/green/brown at another. The irony being that the collections were routed to the same processing location, whereupon they’ll all be mixed anyway as there was insufficient effort made to properly segregate the types.
It was always therapeutic work dispensing empty glass bottles into the recycling bin. Somewhat more concerning when you frequently met the same faces doing likewise, and eventually worrying when you were still doing so after several other visitors had been and gone. But the sound of breaking glass…

Draught, here is simply an acceptance of necessity. I missed it when the lockdown resulted in a few establishments trying to maintain service with cans, instead.

Post by **Freightdog** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:49 pm

phuketrichard wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:27 pm when i do find myself ( rarely) desiring a beer here,
this is my choice

prefer drinking from the bottle rather than a glass

I tried that crystal. I find the detergent aftertaste on the rim of the glass of a grim Draught preferable.

I like Asahi. Aeon’s supermarket used to stock it pre covid.

My last two shopping efforts resulted in disappointment. (Root beer seems to have disappeared, also!)

Post by **Clutch Cargo** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:59 pm

Freightdog wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:49 pm
phuketrichard wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:27 pm when i do find myself ( rarely) desiring a beer here,
this is my choice

prefer drinking from the bottle rather than a glass
I tried that crystal. I find the detergent aftertaste on the rim of the glass of a grim Draught preferable.

I like Asahi. Aeon’s supermarket used to stock it pre covid.

My last two shopping efforts resulted in disappointment. (Root beer seems to have disappeared, also!)

Ah, a man of similar tastes..

Asahi is my preferred brew when back in Australia. Despite the 'Dry' label, I don't really find it like that and it's got just a tad of sweetness.