Honda Super Chaly thread (Chaly restoration/modification)

[AE86]

Bored case out




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Kind of had to hurry today as I had little time available. Will post next update when I get a moment.

[Sailorman]

AE, great job. Very few expats here that would attempt or find it fun to do a project like that. From Thailand my Honda parts guy (Faddybike) ships postal EMS and its not that expensive. I do not use DHL/UPS here ever. Where did you see/hear that a CRF230 cylinder/piston will drop onto the Phantom. (with no case and/or major machining?) The Phantom wrist pin on the cylinder are the same size a as the one on the 230? Wrist pin to top of piston are the same as Phantom? Anyplace you know of that has done this swap? (internet?)

Stroppy: I put my Phantom project on hold to put together my trip to OZ March/April. I did port/polish the new head though and will go at it after I recover from the OZ trip.

[AE86]

^^Thanks for the info, I'll look them up. Never tried EMS here before, so good to hear someone is using it without issue.

Sorry, I should have rephrase. The Phantom uses the same case/stud pattern as the SL/FTR, so an SL cylinder (62? mm) will drop on to the Phantom without case modification needed. It's likely not a plug and play though, i.e. you need the SL piston, wrist pin (wider but diameter is likely the same). Top in rebuild in terms of a bore up kit, I know the SL will take a 249cc with simple jetting and the barrel/piston combo, so if the Phantom uses the same crank, the same should be true then. For the 261 up it would be much like how my 49cc Chaly needs all those things to become the 100 plus cc bike.

I can't remember though if the SL is a stroked or bored version of the Phantom. I want to say the bore is larger and the crank is the same, so for a 223cc mod, the cylinder drop on and proper jetting and the Phantom might be good to go. I'll have to do more looking up.

[Sailorman]

Bore and stroke on the SL and the CRF are both bigger than the Phantom. I've been doing some internet research and I should be able to drop in a CFR230 cylinder with a Wiseco 11to1 piston with no problem if the wrist pins are the same. I have contacted a company in the US for the wrist pin diameter. I will have to have the cases machined for the new cylinder, but we have a couple of pretty far machine shops here and I may be able to slip them some $$ to let me do it.

What's interesting is that I have looked all over for a performance cam for the 200 Phantom, but nothing, (Tiger in Indonesia is the same but no one sells a hot cam.) I am very sure the CRF230 cam is exactly the same as the Phantom, and lots of companies sell highlift cams and stronger springs. All the cam accessory parts look the same and the parts numbers are very close to the ones I got from Thailand for the Phantom. Many parts on the CRF230 look exactly like those on the Phantom.

BTW/ Other than one copy I sold to a guy in Singapore and one I traded to a motorcycle shop here in Snookyville, I have the only English version 240 double back page shop manual for the TA200 Phantom. Everyone working on them here don't have a clue as to the right specs. It took me a couple years, some $$$ and lots of time to find this extremely rare manual. I wouldn't attempt what I am doing without it.

Thanks for the tip on the CRF230. BTW/ I swear by the postal EMS system. It works, you can track it every inch of the way. When I go to the Snookyville post office I take a printout of the tracking number and showing its in the PO. They can't say its not there as they used to do. Once the package gets to the airport, the next day at 2pm its at the Snooky PO.

[AE86]

Only had 15 minutes to work on it today.

There's a pretty piston . Misc reason why a lot of Hondas are quite reliable, they make use of very low compression ratios and hence, much lower stress on the bottom end, pin, etc. In stock form, a C100 Dream would yield a 7.8:1 compression ratio, whereas my current bike has a 10.6:1 ratio.

This combo should yield roughly a "modest" 9:1 CR, which is about as high as you want to go when you can't depend as much on consistent fuel octane. Efficient and powerful enough, but not stupid high.




Assembled the shock tower and adapters together. 7.5 W oil filled to 80ml (firmer than stock, which is 70ml). New seals and dust shields of course.






Pressed in the bearings and siliconed the dust shield in. Also painted the center hub but that was yesterday I think.




Installed the rear struts. They sit lower than I want...




Hope to have more than a few minutes tomorrow.

[StroppyChops]

There is something seriously wonderful about watching a craftsman do something he enjoys...

[AE86]

Front suspension fitted




Piston fitted




Barrel in




Top end shot




Motor finished




Didn't have anymore time today.

[Sailorman]

I've been doing some research and have come up with some amazing information. All the part numbers I've checked from the Honda CFR230F are the same part numbers (almost) as the Honda TA200 Phantom. The Thai's add three digits at the end that are different, but the rest of the part numbers are the same

I've got all the OEM parts (bearings, seals, clutch plates/parts, etc) to rebuild my Phantom. The main bearings on the Phantom are the same as the CRF230f, which means I can drop in a longer stroke crank/rod from the CRF, use a big bore kit/barrel made for the CRF that is bored to 250cc, with 11-1 compression and drop this in the Phantom cases with a little machining for the bigger barrel. The head is exactly the same, so I can use the head I ported/polished/relieved and drop in a BBR hi-pro CRF cam with higher lift and longer duration. My question is why did the Thai's go with 196cc instead of using the 230cc engine, very interesting. I'd end up with about a 30hp Phantom. Thump, Thump, Thump!

[AE86]

^My understanding is that the bike was produced for Singapore which had a novice license which restricted the rider to under 200cc. I'm guessing the Thais just kept it the same for their market?

[StroppyChops]

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Look saart, bong.