Have you lost your job due to Corona Virus? Need a CV?

rozzieoz · Post by **rozzieoz** » Sun Feb 19, 2023 8:06 am

truffledog wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 6:26 pm You must cook with the ingredients you have.

Exactly. Not all valuable administrative work is paid work.
The tasks that I listed on her CV were ALL tasks she was performing in every day life, to move and settle her family overseas - managing her husband's diary and appointments, paying invoices, entering data into spreadsheets, liaising with agents and a range of other stakeholders and doing all the other admin work that it takes to achieve successful daily operations.

But she didn't get paid for it. So that makes it ALL worthless, right?
WRONG!

Private Nuts · Post by **Private Nuts** » Sun Feb 19, 2023 10:48 am

I could be a little off here, perhaps driving through a field thinking it's a road, but I think Roz is right, she should put that on her resume, rightfully so. It's basically about getting to the interview isn't it?. I think of resumes as like writing my essay on a piece of art for my year 12 art exam. Finding anything in the painting that you can b@llshit on about for 2 pages that will make the art teacher think, wow , they really have an understanding of this painting on a deep philosophical level. They could work in an art museum and talk sh@t about a squiggle for an hour, A+. Then in the interview let her personality win the boss over.

angsta · Post by **angsta** » Sun Feb 19, 2023 12:15 pm

Mr Cynical wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 5:56 pm Wow, devious ways to get a job, hopefully she was found out and sacked!! Honesty used to be the best policy sneaky lies should get you nowhere!!!

Honesty is never the best policy. What year do you think this is?

Don't hate the playa hate the game!

Alex · Post by **Alex** » Sun Feb 19, 2023 12:35 pm

I think @rozzieoz did an outstanding job there, that's what people hire an expert for.

A bit funny to see who the offended parties are.

Random Dude · Post by **Random Dude** » Sun Feb 19, 2023 2:26 pm

Some of the job adverts I've seen have been pretty damn creative themselves, making a shit job sound like the fulfilling, career opportunity of a lifetime.

Where I am there are clever ads running on prime time TV at the moment, you can apply to guide and nurture troubled people to help them overcome their personal challenges and better themselves, make a difference to the lives of countless families in this respected career where no two days are same, ex-clients will greet you on the street and thank you for what you did... etc...

Before anyone thinks 'that sounds alright, where do I apply'.... ask yourself if you REALLY want to be a poorly paid prison guard in an understaffed prison with a toxic work environment, management who don't give a fuck about you, high rate of stress, burnout, and the chance of being beaten or stabbed at any minute.

Post by **Freightdog** » Sun Feb 19, 2023 2:36 pm

When you see clear demonstrations of the incompetence from people that are technically qualified for a role, having genuine (if somewhat optimistic accounts of their) ‘experience’, I don’t see a problem with creatively including someone’s actual experience with an absence of a qualification.
I work in an industry that’s mesmerised by big numbers and lots of letters, often without genuinely reconciling those numbers against actual experience and ability. The caveat is that if anything is found to be false, it could be deemed as qualification for dismissal. But given that the average HR person that I’ve encountered hasn’t much of a clue what the company actually does, it’s somewhat incumbent upon the company to genuinely establish if the person has got what it takes.
That means that engineers should review engineers, chemists should review chemists. Probationary periods fit that need. Not HR graduates, whose first job should be making sure the boxes are ticked and files end up in the correct drawer.

IraHayes · Post by **IraHayes** » Sun Feb 19, 2023 3:24 pm

Many years ago I was general manager for a small/medium engineering company that made steel doorsets.
I answered directly to the owner and I rose to that position as when the company started it was me and him. He had this great interview strategy where I would meet the respective interviewee as they walked up to the building looking where to go. I would be outside doing something menial while I waited for them, such as sweeping up or something. I would greet them and ask if I could help them. They would, obviously respond that they were there for an interview. I would play dumb and say something like "oh, what was the job?" and then move to small talk as i show them the way in. I would leave them safely on the shopfloor while I told the boss the guy was here.
This was when the clock started ticking. I had 10 to 15 minutes to get as much useful info from them as possible while they waited in the canteen. We would go there on the premise that the boss was busy with something urgent that had literally cropped up in the last 30 minutes and it had to be dealt with before he could do the interview.
This, for a start, would let me see the guys response to a last minute change. Shit happens in a small business and that can sometimes mean unexpected overtime etc.
Anyway, I would make the guy a drink, and one for myself, and continue our small talk till one of the admin ladies came for him.

Now, things that come out when a guy thinks he's talking to a worker not a manager.
I like to finish on time so i can go play golf, go fishing, get home to play on the PC/gamebox whatever.
but in the interview they say they are ok with unexpected overtime
you find out what they really thought of their last job or current job.
you find out if they are looking for a temporary stop gap type job or a more permanent position and other little titbits.

There are the times too, when you find out stuff they don't tell the boss thats actually useful. Like one guy who told me he could weld but told the boss he couldn't. His reasoning for saying no was that he didn't have any papers/certificates but that wasn't the question he was asked. He was asked "can you weld?". The welding guy was set on and he ended up taking over the CNC programming from me as he picked it up really quickly.

Now as to exaggerating claims on a CV
For me it's fine as a decent interviewer, who knows the role the person is up for, should weedle out the dross and any exaggerated claims will be discovered.
Lying on a CV is big no-no of course and those people are much more of a problem tbh. Then there's the probationary period and any exaggerated claims will also come to light here. These people are usually let go with a "you said you could do x,y and z but clearly you have never done these things or not done them to the level you claimed in the interview."

truffledog · Post by **truffledog** » Sun Feb 19, 2023 5:38 pm

rozzieoz wrote: ↑Sun Feb 19, 2023 8:06 am
truffledog wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 6:26 pm You must cook with the ingredients you have.
Exactly. Not all valuable administrative work is paid work.
The tasks that I listed on her CV were ALL tasks she was performing in every day life, to move and settle her family overseas - managing her husband's diary and appointments, paying invoices, entering data into spreadsheets, liaising with agents and a range of other stakeholders and doing all the other admin work that it takes to achieve successful daily operations.

But she didn't get paid for it. So that makes it ALL worthless, right?
WRONG!

But she didn't get paid for it. So that makes it ALL worthless, right?
WRONG!

If you read my first comment I clearly stated that beeing a mum (and wife) is a worthy "job" taking up a lot of time. So I completely agree on this.

You suggested creating fake documents to get a job, thats my point. You could have listed all those "worthy" activities SINCERELY as beeing part of her "work" experience during that time she was NOT employed (paid). A good employer would accept those facts and NOT consider the time beeing a mum as a GAP in a CV but a normal gap for somebody having to take care for kids. Most employers are fathers too and they exactly know the value of a hard working wife at home. Some even prefer a mum as they have many skills (managing total chaos sometimes!) that a non-mother has not (yet).

Its a kind of tragic that such a statement comes from a woman who should strongly defend the fact that taking time out for raising kids is NORMAL and dont need to be hidden behind some fake documents and "work" experiences. We will probably never agree on the difference between lying in a CV and adding cosmetics to a CV. We will probably both continue to live a happy life.

I also stronly question the fact that she got the job by just adding that fake part on the CV. You probably did a good job in designing an attractive CV to get her foot in the door. Well done here. But probably the interview was MUCH more important for beeing selected. Seems that she presented herself very well and answered the questions right.

Post by **Freightdog** » Sun Feb 19, 2023 6:10 pm

truffledog wrote: ↑Sun Feb 19, 2023 5:38 pm A good employer would accept those facts and NOT consider the time beeing a mum as a GAP in a CV but a normal gap for somebody having to take care for kids. Most employers are fathers too and they exactly know the value of a hard working wife at home.

I’m a little on the fence, here.
A good employer is, I suspect, rather akin to unicorns these days.

In an ideal world, the right person might be interviewed by the right person. In the actual world these days, someone writes a job spec, an ad, and you either meet the criteria 100%, or are immediately eliminated. No longer would a good candidate be considered meeting only 80% of the spec, but bringing more to the job than the bit that didn’t quite match.
Net result is a general dilution of skills and quality, rather than reinforcement of talent.

If CVs get you an interview, then all well and good.
However, a lazy and out of touch recruitment team will easily overlook some gotchas having been seduced by what appears to be an ideal candidate with fantastic basic stats.
If the same team do not have a robust vetting process, all manner of crap descends.

About 30odd years ago I saw this very thing happen. A nearly ideal candidate so impressed the selection team that he was hired over less ideal candidates. The guy who got hired was ex-mil, an officer, and as it turned out dodgy as can be, wanted in connection by police and several wives’ lawyers.
The less ideal guy was discounted because English was not his first language, his qualifications didn’t easily transfer across borders following the collapse of the soviet bloc, and was working as a labourer in the UK. (He actually was very clever, very well qualified, but it didn’t count legally)

Jerry Atrick · Post by **Jerry Atrick** » Sun Feb 19, 2023 6:56 pm

IraHayes wrote: ↑Sun Feb 19, 2023 3:24 pm Many years ago I was general manager for a small/medium engineering company that made steel doorsets.
I answered directly to the owner and I rose to that position as when the company started it was me and him. He had this great interview strategy where I would meet the respective interviewee as they walked up to the building looking where to go. I would be outside doing something menial while I waited for them, such as sweeping up or something. I would greet them and ask if I could help them. They would, obviously respond that they were there for an interview. I would play dumb and say something like "oh, what was the job?" and then move to small talk as i show them the way in. I would leave them safely on the shopfloor while I told the boss the guy was here.
This was when the clock started ticking. I had 10 to 15 minutes to get as much useful info from them as possible while they waited in the canteen. We would go there on the premise that the boss was busy with something urgent that had literally cropped up in the last 30 minutes and it had to be dealt with before he could do the interview.
This, for a start, would let me see the guys response to a last minute change. Shit happens in a small business and that can sometimes mean unexpected overtime etc.
Anyway, I would make the guy a drink, and one for myself, and continue our small talk till one of the admin ladies came for him.

Now, things that come out when a guy thinks he's talking to a worker not a manager.
I like to finish on time so i can go play golf, go fishing, get home to play on the PC/gamebox whatever.
but in the interview they say they are ok with unexpected overtime
you find out what they really thought of their last job or current job.
you find out if they are looking for a temporary stop gap type job or a more permanent position and other little titbits.

There are the times too, when you find out stuff they don't tell the boss thats actually useful. Like one guy who told me he could weld but told the boss he couldn't. His reasoning for saying no was that he didn't have any papers/certificates but that wasn't the question he was asked. He was asked "can you weld?". The welding guy was set on and he ended up taking over the CNC programming from me as he picked it up really quickly.

Now as to exaggerating claims on a CV
For me it's fine as a decent interviewer, who knows the role the person is up for, should weedle out the dross and any exaggerated claims will be discovered.
Lying on a CV is big no-no of course and those people are much more of a problem tbh. Then there's the probationary period and any exaggerated claims will also come to light here. These people are usually let go with a "you said you could do x,y and z but clearly you have never done these things or not done them to the level you claimed in the interview."

Lol yes, I have been in that position many a time.

The shit people will say to somebody they don't realize is effectively the boss is amazing

I fired three Aussies before they ever got hired through this front yard vetting process

Have you lost your job due to Corona Virus? Need a CV?

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Re: Have you lost your job due to Corona Virus? Need a CV?

Re: Have you lost your job due to Corona Virus? Need a CV?

Re: Have you lost your job due to Corona Virus? Need a CV?

Re: Have you lost your job due to Corona Virus? Need a CV?

Re: Have you lost your job due to Corona Virus? Need a CV?

Re: Have you lost your job due to Corona Virus? Need a CV?

Re: Have you lost your job due to Corona Virus? Need a CV?

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